Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This thread is a different point of view from Majoun's thread where he suggests eliminating the sales tax and shifting the tax burden onto property tax owners entirely. I was going to post a response, but I think this deserves an entirely new thread.
I would do the complete oppose of Majoun's suggestion to eliminate sale taxes. I say jack up the sales tax up to 15%, 20% or higher and eliminate most other forms of taxation. With sales taxes, EVERYONE who buys goods and services pays the sales taxes. Illegal aliens get paid mostly under the table, so they do not pay income taxes. Also do not own property, so they don't pay property taxes. While it is possible for an illegal alien to buy property in this country, try getting a loan from a bank with no documented income, good luck with that. But illegal immigrates can still take advantage of our educational system, emergency medical, police protection, and other services. And they do not pay dime into the system to support it. If only property owners pay taxes, your shifting the whole tax burden onto one class of people, it's just not a fair form of taxation. The main point of Majaun's argument is people will tend to buy goods and service from states with lower sales tax rates, wouldn’t it make more sense just to level the playing field and made all states charge the same percentage of sales tax? If a state wants to charge less taxes than another state, then the federal government steps in and charges a federal sales tax to level the playing field. So if PA has a 20% Sales tax and Delaware has a 0% tax rate, the Federal government steps in and would charge a 20% Federal sale tax, Delaware would change their sales tax policy pretty quickly to avoid losing sale tax revenue to the federal government.
So you are saying that you don't like that immigrants don't pay income taxes. What about Americans that live on the dole that take out of the system but don't contribute. Ok, I'd be for it. At least if everyone has skin in the game then at least they wouldn't be so easily persuaded to raise taxes.
High VAT's are an invitation for black labor markets, especially in the construction industry. It also gives labor contractors an incentive to feed the least skilled workers into the construction labor market. Results are that the government collects fewer taxes and there are more illegal immigrants working.
That's the problem with any of these consumption tax proposals. It incentive-fies the black market just as the proposers claim that the income tax structures (either existing or flat) doesn't include say drug dealers and gamblers.
Also if you think the IRS is fully going away under these proposals, hold the phone. Let's remember somebody has to go around to the stores and double check that they are actually sending out the taxed money to the federal government. So yeah the IRS wont come after you as an individual, but the IRS will come after the companies.
I say use the wealth tax to replace all taxes. Then gradually get rid of all the handouts and government subsidy programs as wealth redistributes slowly. It should work out much better than the system we have now
So you are saying that you don't like that immigrants don't pay income taxes. What about Americans that live on the dole that take out of the system but don't contribute. Ok, I'd be for it. At least if everyone has skin in the game then at least they wouldn't be so easily persuaded to raise taxes.
Why should having skin in the game mean not wanting to raise taxes now? If taxes aren't raised now then it just means that you have to levy it on yourself instead, because if SS/Medicare run out of money you will need more retirement savings. So you have to forgo current consumption either way, if you are responsible with your own future.
This thread is a different point of view from Majoun's thread where he suggests eliminating the sales tax and shifting the tax burden onto property tax owners entirely. I was going to post a response, but I think this deserves an entirely new thread.
I would do the complete oppose of Majoun's suggestion to eliminate sale taxes. I say jack up the sales tax up to 15%, 20% or higher and eliminate most other forms of taxation. With sales taxes, EVERYONE who buys goods and services pays the sales taxes. Illegal aliens get paid mostly under the table, so they do not pay income taxes. Also do not own property, so they don't pay property taxes. While it is possible for an illegal alien to buy property in this country, try getting a loan from a bank with no documented income, good luck with that. But illegal immigrates can still take advantage of our educational system, emergency medical, police protection, and other services. And they do not pay dime into the system to support it. If only property owners pay taxes, your shifting the whole tax burden onto one class of people, it's just not a fair form of taxation. The main point of Majaun's argument is people will tend to buy goods and service from states with lower sales tax rates, wouldn’t it make more sense just to level the playing field and made all states charge the same percentage of sales tax? If a state wants to charge less taxes than another state, then the federal government steps in and charges a federal sales tax to level the playing field. So if PA has a 20% Sales tax and Delaware has a 0% tax rate, the Federal government steps in and would charge a 20% Federal sale tax, Delaware would change their sales tax policy pretty quickly to avoid losing sale tax revenue to the federal government.
??? If people who do not own property are getting a free ride, why don't you sell your home and start renting? Perhaps because then you would be paying even more than you pay now whille getting no appreciation and no equity? In Michigan the school property tax rate on rental property is four times the tax rate on owner-occupied homes; that works out to an extra $1200 property tax on a typical rental house. I am paying that extra property tax PLUS a hefty profit to my landlord. Maybe it's homeowners who aren't pulling their weight in property taxes.
TechGromit, taxes have one or more of three general purposes: Taxes provide governments’ revenues, modify human behavior or bolster the economy within their government’s jurisdiction.
Due to the relationships between governments’ tax revenues, chosen distribution of governments’ expenditures and specific taxes modifications of human behaviors, individual taxes are more or less beneficial to their nation’s economy; individual taxes can also be of net economic and/or social detriment to their nations.
There is no “fair tax that’s equitable to all entities but individual taxes can be more or less equitable to their nations’ citizens.
I’m a proponent that the USA to the most practical extent should replace our major sources of revenues, (our income taxes) with a general federal sales tax. This would not be equitable unless we additionally modify our taxes and/or government expenditures to compensate for simple sales taxes flat rate characteristic that in effect has a more detrimental effect upon our nation’s poorest legal residents.
I believe an intelligently prudent U.S. Congress would not and should not attempt to transform huge portions government revenue sources in a single step. We should incrementally transform revenues from income taxes to sales taxes. I believe that at some incremental step we will approach an unacceptable ales tax rate and further transformation will be interrupted if not entirely halted. If I’m incorrect, income taxes would be entirely eliminated.
Sales and excise taxes are the lesser of all evils because it offers the most freedom for the taxpayer. I have direct control over how much I want to contribute to the government by increasing or decreasing my spending at my own leisure.
I agree but where do we cut? It's easy to say we need cuts, the question is where? No matter what, we have debt to pay off whether it is entitlement or racked up war bills for Iraq and Afghanistan before that. Has the debt been reduced, yes but we still have a ways to go to even be close of being neutral. I'm not saying we should recklessly spend but it's not an easy job to figure out where to cut and where not to.
A good place to start would be probably be the constitution. Besides the military, the post office, the US Mint, and Interstate Highways...what else is the federal government authorized to spend our tax dollars on?
I agree but where do we cut? It's easy to say we need cuts, the question is where? No matter what, we have debt to pay off whether it is entitlement or racked up war bills for Iraq and Afghanistan before that. Has the debt been reduced, yes but we still have a ways to go to even be close of being neutral. I'm not saying we should recklessly spend but it's not an easy job to figure out where to cut and where not to.
MKPunk, the topic of this thread is the comparative of sales tax to other tax methods.
Taxes and fees are governments’ methods for obtaining revenues.
The diligence applied to the administration and enforcement of those methods government has chosen to utilize and particularly the tax and fee rates all contribute to the net rate of yield and the total revenues derived from those aggregate methods.
When accumulated revenues fall short of immediate expenses due, government has no other alternative than cover the short fall by direct borrowing or printing more currency, (i.e. inflating the nation’s currency).
The allocation and priorities of government’s expenditures, (i.e. where we should spend) is not this discussion thread’s topic. Surly where our governments should spend are topics worthy of their own discussion threads?
Respectfully, Supposn
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
