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I live in NY and im 18 (will turn 19 in july) and i pay for my college tuition out of pocket, I've worked since i was 16 saving up to go to college and pay it myself. I've always been a smart kid and knew how to save my money and spend it wisely. My parents always told me that they will pay for my college tuition themselves, at the time when i was 16 i said no, but with reasoning i took my parents help because they wanted me to keep the $35k i have saved. We aren't poor, but were not rich either. My mom is a Nurse and my Father is a co-owner of small businesses around our community. They make (after taxes) about $90k-$100k total yearly. My parents were born in the dominican republic but came to the united states fairly young. They lived in my aunts house for quite some time while they BOTH worked there asses off and went to school to get college degrees. They refused government aid at that time because they said to themselves (and to me a lot) "Taking aid from the government is like living with your parents till your 50, sure its nice and comfortable but you're going to have an awful life if all you do is depend on them" This saying has been told to me numerous amounts of time (with some tweaks)
Anyways enough about my background etc, here is why i HATE the government aid programs
& why we should tell these people to F off.
** Financial aid for college students has to be the most F*cke up crap i've ever seen and it pisses me off every day. Lets think about this for a second, College tuition for community colleges are closing in on $2,500 while 4 year colleges are coming in on $6,000+ per semester.
Those who qualify for financial aid:
- Those who receive financial aid come from "low income families" pay a total amount of $0 for tuition and $0 for books, some do pay for books but the majority of students who go to college rent books from chegg.com and it costs anywhere from $20-$100 to rent for a semester, that is chump change.
Those who don't recieve help:
Meanwhile people who DONT receive financial aid have to pay the ENTIRE $2,500 for community college and $6,000 for 4 year unis + books. Lets not forget that these people who don't qualify have to work their asses off to pay their tuition + most people tend to take out loans which put them into horrible debt all for trying to get an education.
Why should they cut financial aid? If we were to cut finanical aid 3 things happen:
1. The price of tuition drops because schools live off the money we pay to enter college. So now since there is no more financial aid the price HAS to drop so that the poorer students can pay. This makes everything equal.
2. The money we can save from cutting finanical aid can be used for other things like fixing potholes, be given to hospitals for research purposes, more equipment for the city etc.. the possibilities are truly endless.
3. The amount of graduates with debts will decline drastically since the price of tuition dropped & the economy will bounce back up since more people will get jobs and spend all that extra money on goods.
Now you might be saying "ok they are poor so they don't have to pay cause they can't and you come from a wealthy family so you can afford to pay" am i right? i think thats what most of you thought.
Heres my argument: A person who recieves finanical aid gets to obtain a college degree for FREE saving THOUSANDS of dollars, they don't need to pay the goverment back, the governemt doesnt take any extra money out of their paychecks for receiving a college degree for free, THEY DONT DO ANYTHING.
Whereas a person who DID NOT receive financial aid gets a degree, has debts in the thousands, can't buy stuff that they want because they're paying rent/mortgage + paying back those student loans.
The people who are "poor" and qualify for financial aid have the same jobs as those who don't qualify (wealthy) making $9hr part-time. Both the "poor" and "wealthy" have the EXACT same pay-rate. They get paid the same, the only difference is their parents. If your parents don't make a lot of money then you qualify for financial aid and the gov helps you, if they DO make a lot of money then you don't qualify and the gov basically tells you " hey go pay yourself, we'll help the poor and make you find a way to pay college yourself " . But why should the person who's wealthy spend all their hard earned money on college tuition whereas the "poor" person spends all their money on stuff like cars,games, TVs, phones, expensive clothes etc and on top of buying all this cool stuff they STILL go to college for free.
We need to stop this government aid crap, if you have the ability to tell yourself " i wanna go to college and have a good career" then you also have the ability to do it on your own and not depend on the government. Once you turn 18 you are an ADULT, you make choices and you have to take care of your own problems. Just to clarify things, i don't mind investing towards my future by using my money for college. What i do mind is having other people get a college degree for free.
Opinions? All of this stuff is EASILY relatable towards food stamps and housing projects. Both should be cut to a certain extent. Make people work for what they want, i shouldn't be paying taxes to help another person go to college. Im basically contributing for someone elses education, we all are.
It's not as black and white as you present here. There is a continuum and poorer people do not get "free college". They qualify for various different loans and grants with very strict guidelines and almost always, there is no free cash received. Usually it's low interest private loans, not grants. And the poor do have to repay college loans, but may qualify to pay based on income reported after college rather than risk forebearances.
Secondly, the Govt subsidizes college not just for the poor, but for all applicants. This enables more money to go towards better quality assurance standards for college classes. If we just let tuition drop, the cost of this is decline in the quality of teaching, supplies, and everything else that makes college a learning atmosphere. You put this into building bridges, but you won't have very good architectural engineers to build those bridges when you cut out the Govt's contributing matching funds to pay for those who teach on university premises.
You are enjoying the benefits of a college program that incorporates learning opportunities that wouldn't actually be possible
If your 18 and decide to live on your own thats your problem. Majority of college students still live with their parents so rent isn't a problem.
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Originally Posted by EricS39
It's not as black and white as you present here. There is a continuum and poorer people do not get "free college". They qualify for various different loans and grants with very strict guidelines and almost always, there is no free cash received.
Poor people DO get to go to college for free THATS WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. They don't pay a dime for college tuition. LOANS, FINANCIAL AID & SCHOLARSHIPS ARE ALL DIFFERENT.
LOANS: Anyone can get a loan from a bank to pay for college tuition, poor people NEVER get loans since they are the ones who get FINANCIAL AID.
Financial aid: is what the "poor" people get, they don't pay a dime EVER for the college tuition all they need to do is maintain a 2.5gpa which is the same as getting 70/100 or 75/100 on every single test/ assignment. If and only they FAIL a class or the gpa drops THEN thats when they have to pay for the class they failed or the entire semester. But lets be honest only a complete moron gets a 2.5gpa or lower IN COLLEGE.
Scholarships: ANYONE can get a scholarship and its FREE all you need to do is apply for a scholarship and if you meet the requirements you get the scholarship. There are scholarships for being gay, left handed, blind, cripple the list goes on and on .. Scholarships come in two different ways.
1. One time thing: here you win a scholarship and get money one time and thats it.
2. Continuous: here if you win a scholarship for your academic accomplishments then they pay for all of it or most of it depending on what the prize was. They are very strict to who they give these out too, you usually need to maintain a 3.5gpa to keep a scholarship like this.
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Originally Posted by fuzzymystic
Seriously? How disgraceful. You've shown your ignorance admirably thus far. No need to keep hammering home the point.
Please you act like its not true, im dominican (hispanic) and im not even offended because i know that is what these Mexicans do and its pathetic.
I got screwed. Instead of working and saving money I had to pay for stuff like rent, food, car, books, etc. From the time I was 15 on I had to pay for all my own stuff. Then came time for college. I got into good schools, got scholarships, but it would still cost upwards of $10,000+ a year just for tuition out of pocket! not including living expenses. I didn't qualify for any help because my parents made too much money. But they didn't have enough money to help pay. So I was stuck in the middle. The only option was to take out loans, but you need a cosigner. My parents didn't want to cosign a loan because they thought it would be impossible to pay off and they'd end up taking whatever they have.
So yeah, its impossible to go to college if you are in the middle. Poor or rich, you can go. In the middle? Screwed. Even after explaining things to financial aid they said the only option is a payment plan but I still had to pay. No grants, assistence, etc.. So for someone working 50 hours a week for $8/hr you can't win. It's either pay for school or living. Don't even get me started on dorms. That's another $8000-$10000/year. And it doesn't matter if you have been paying and living on your own with no help from your parents, if you are under 25 their money counts as yours.
I understand but if your parents really cared they would handle their problems and you handle yours. But then again if youre a middle class student and CANT afford a $10k+ year tuition by yourself then why in the world would you enter that? Im fairly wealthy and i had the opportunity to attend Stony Brook University here in NY then i saw that the tuition was $6,500 PER SEMESTER. So i quickly did my math and saw that if i go to this school ill lose all the money i saved and then some. So what did i do? I turned down their offer and went to a community college paying $2,500 per semester getting a AAS in radiologic tech then once i get enough money i will pay my way through stony brook to get a BA. You took the hard way and that is your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
It's great that your parents were very wealthy by Domincan standards, worked hard and gave you a good life. That said, you didn't earn a damned bit of it. You didn't earn your parents' hard work, nor the wealth and education and even work ethic they instilled in you (if indeed everything you say is true in an unvarnished way).
My parents wealth and MY wealth are two different things. I have $35k from working 1 job and fixing and re-selling cars over the past two years. Sure my parents bought me clothes and stuff but thats them giving me stuff like every parent does. They chose to pay for my college tuition so that i can spend my $35k however i want (or save it). I could've payed it myself without a problem. My parents came here with a plan which is why they are successful, others come here just to work and receive aid from the government <--- 100000% true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalSin
OP rant is complete fail. Your father has an business, and your mother is an nurse. Together that is a lot of money.
Financial Aid is for people who barely make enough to get by. We are talking about people who live in one room apartments that is big as two or three tall men. That is a joke compare to how you lived or grew up.
I mean Dear, god you are 19 years old? I doubt you actual knew how peaceful and freindly the US was before 2001, and before the internet, was wide spread. Your just too young, to even know what you are talking about. I am sorry, OP you sound so immature to know what you are saying.
Without Financial Aid, the government could never regulate standards in the workplace, such as college requirements. This means our educational systems would go back to the state of the 1970's or even before that. Don't you understand, without college funding, your parents would be out of a business. Maybe not your mom, because she would be tending to all the victims of violence and robberies, from the jobless people. No army could stop them. It would be like Germany before the WW2, broke out. All of our daughters would be hoars, and our sons would be heartless thieves.
Financial Aide is their so the government can raise educational standards, anytime they want. Also when the student comes back for more Aide, they can take out an loan from the G-people, which will lead them to more financial troubles in the future.
Also all colleges are just the same exact thing, it is the grade that you get from the professor that affects you. While C is the standard grade, other colleges charges tons more and only expects A and B's
Just because im 19 years old doesn't mean im immature. I don't care about 2001 i was 6 years old at the time, im talking about 2014 where the economy is complete **** and these ass holes who "claim" to be poor receive a FREE college education and spend the money they make from working on stuff that others who are mid class / wealthy CANT buy because THEY are too busy calculating how much money they will have after they pay their college tuition. DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE NOW?
Financial aid does not raise educational standards, who told you this load of sh*t? What raises education in general is the will that someone has to ATTEND college.
Giving financial aid to the poor does two things
1. It promotes being poor
2. Promotes laziness
Why laziness? If you attend college for free you take it for granted, you aren't paying for it so there is no risk and your working your job making money WHILE gaining an education that can get you even more money. Just compare the two. A Student who pays for their college tuition puts in more effort than someone who gets finanical aid and pays NOTHING. WHY? Because the person who is paying for the tuition is putting all the chips on the table so they HAVE to make it work or else they're out of a **** ton of money and will never see it back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
What about their green card, visa, residency and citizenship?
I never asked them about that, they put in papers to come to the US and they got accepted and told me that they never had a problem with any thing you listed.
How is that a problem? A problem would be being too incompetent to be able to pay rent.
Because if you know you wan't to go to college the most logical thing is to live at home with your parents so you don't have to pay rent. If you chose to move out and rent on your own then thats your problem you chose to do it, and you are clearly not thinking about your financial situation & hope that the government comes in like an angle and pays for your tuition. Now that you mention it a lot of students that i know tell me they move out and rent a room somewhere JUST so they can file as independent and receive financial aid then they move back into their parents home without the gov't knowing & then they maintain the aid.
Because if you know you wan't to go to college the most logical thing is to live at home with your parents so you don't have to pay rent.
It's not that logical. That's some twisted logic you have there. When you go to college, you're probably going to move on campus anyways... assuming you want to maximize your education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
If you chose to move out and rent on your own then thats your problem you chose to do it...
That's not a problem... that's a wise decision for a competent 18 year old. Now if you're incompetent or have unique circumstances... that's a different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
, and you are clearly not thinking about your financial situation & hope that the government comes in like an angle and pays for your tuition. Now that you mention it a lot of students that i know tell me they move out and rent a room somewhere JUST so they can file as independent and receive financial aid then they move back into their parents home without the gov't knowing & then they maintain the aid.
If you're a competent student in the first place ,you wouldn't need federal financial aid. Good schools already provide enough funding. Just take a look at Harvard, NYU, JHU, Duke, GWU, etc.
The idea that you feel that you're in a position where your only options are pay out of pocket or federal aid is telling of the quality of student you are in the first place. That's your real problem. So how about you stop covering up your real problem?
It's not that logical. That's some twisted logic you have there. When you go to college, you're probably going to move on campus anyways... assuming you want to maximize your education.
Not all colleges have dorms, and those who want to move on campus do it to have that fun college life style of partying etc (i lived in a dorm for 1 semester and it wasn't maximizing my education at all, i just did it to have a good time). You don't need to live in a dorm to "maximize your education" thats a load of sh*t and you know it. Living in a dorm actually is more distracting whereas living at home is more comfortable and less distracting. Here at home you sleep in a room by yourself nobody to bother you, in a dorm you share a room with 1-3 other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
not a problem... that's a wise decision for a competent 18 year old. Now if you're incompetent or have unique circumstances... that's a different story.
You think its wise for an 18 year old who JUST graduated high school to move out and live on their own? Then i hope you don't have children because thats just awful parenting, and if you are 18 and want to do this go ahead, have fun being on food stamps for the rest of your life and barely just barely making ends meet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
you're a competent student in the first place ,you wouldn't need federal financial aid. Good schools already provide enough funding. Just take a look at Harvard, NYU, JHU, Duke, GWU, etc.
If you are a poor/middle class student and you look at schools like Harvard, NYU, etc.. and you KNOW that you can't afford to attend these schools without entering major debt or you know that you don't meet the requirements to get scholarships then why the hell look? Do the smart thing go to a community college get an AA Degree and a high GPA then with the money you make with your AA degree, that will go into paying for your education at NYU, Harvard or wherever the hell you want to go. What most people think is that getting a BA is the only option, thats false.. most careers only need an AA degree BAs are only good if you wanna get paid like $1500 more yearly.
Did you even go to college? because with the questions your asking either you never went to college or you went to college but had the government aid you.
Not all colleges have dorms, and those who want to move on campus do it to have that fun college life style of partying etc (i lived in a dorm for 1 semester and it wasn't maximizing my education at all, i just did it to have a good time). You don't need to live in a dorm to "maximize your education" thats a load of sh*t and you know it. Living in a dorm actually is more distracting whereas living at home is more comfortable and less distracting. Here at home you sleep in a room by yourself nobody to bother you, in a dorm you share a room with 1-3 other people.
This is completely wrong. I find it strange that you are not familiar with college at all and continue to talk about it. Living on campus gives you 24/7 access to research facilities, professors and PhD students. All decent colleges have dorming or offcampus housing.
Most people who commute just end up taking classes and not getting involved in higher education. Why bother going to college if you aren't going to get an education? You can learn the classwork by reading a textbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
You think its wise for an 18 year old who JUST graduated high school to move out and live on their own? Then i hope you don't have children because thats just awful parenting, and if you are 18 and want to do this go ahead, have fun being on food stamps for the rest of your life and barely just barely making ends meet.
Raising competent children is bad parenting? That's absurd.
Raising incompetent students that need to live off of their parents at 18 is bad parenting. If you're going to college and you're worth of a college education, your university will pay for housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
If you are a poor/middle class student and you look at schools like Harvard, NYU, etc.. and you KNOW that you can't afford to attend these schools without entering major debt or you know that you don't meet the requirements to get scholarships then why the hell look?
Why are you going to college if you aren't smart enough to go to college? These schools fund smart students and have generous grants for poor people so they don't have to tap federal aid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
Do the smart thing go to a community college get an AA Degree and a high GPA then with the money you make with your AA degree, that will go into paying for your education at NYU, Harvard or wherever the hell you want to go.
An AA is fine for a trade... but if you want an academic degree (BA/BS or higher) going to community college is a big waste of time. Not only do you not get exposure to university level research and academia at a community college, but most of the decent colleges are extremely difficult to transfer into. Look at the transfer rates for UPENN, NYU, Harvard, etc. Heck, my college doesn't even accept transfers at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
What most people think is that getting a BA is the only option, thats false.. most careers only need an AA degree BAs are only good if you wanna get paid like $1500 more yearly.
Your poor English really makes your posts hard to read. Your figures are way off. A BA/BS from a good school like Brown, Harvard, UPenn, etc... will earn you several several thousands of dollars more per year than an AA from a community college. Tens of thousands, in fact.
Not that there's anything wrong with community college. It has its place for students who aren't smart enough... but it doesn't compare to a 4 year degree from a good college program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace789
Did you even go to college? because with the questions your asking either you never went to college or you went to college but had the government aid you.
Yes, I attended college. Your unfamiliarity with the topic of higher education is deceiving you. You might want to look into college a little bit before discussing it.
I did not receive any federal aid. I was smart enough to attend a school that would pay my tuition for me via grants and scholarships. In fact, my school has a no-loan policy.
They already are. The good schools have generous financial aid to help students who cannot afford them.
The college here raised tuition on the working and paying students so they could give free tuition for the lazier students. How fair is that?
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