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Old 09-23-2014, 01:07 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,967,214 times
Reputation: 8928

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
Should tax paying citizens who do not have a pension plan going for them be required to fund the pensions of others?

Few private sector employees have a pension plan in this day and age. However, most public sector employees (municipal, state and Federal) have pension plans that are funded in whole or in part from taxes imposed on all people in their respective tax base.

In my mind, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to require people who don't have a pension to fund the pensions of people in the public sector. If it were up to me, I would provide for a tax credit for people without a pension plan or, better yet, pass a law that required all public sector employees to fund their own pensions.

What makes sense to you?

This is precisely why Moderator cut: off topic state income taxes should not be flat.

I once worked half-time as a student janitor on a college campus with other students and with full-time workers.

The full-time janitors had a wage 3x the student wages, plus fringe benefits worth 2x the student wages.

And my state has/had a flat income tax!

Last edited by Oldhag1; 09-23-2014 at 02:29 PM.. Reason: Unless the topic is specifically about politics bringing up partisan politics is off topic
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:34 PM
 
15,423 posts, read 8,786,749 times
Reputation: 13820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
Should tax paying citizens who do not have a pension plan going for them be required to fund the pensions of others?

Few private sector employees have a pension plan in this day and age. However, most public sector employees (municipal, state and Federal) have pension plans that are funded in whole or in part from taxes imposed on all people in their respective tax base.

In my mind, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to require people who don't have a pension to fund the pensions of people in the public sector. If it were up to me, I would provide for a tax credit for people without a pension plan or, better yet, pass a law that required all public sector employees to fund their own pensions.

What makes sense to you?
Why do you want to punish those that have pensions? Why would they be the only ones that get the credit?
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:18 PM
 
5,715 posts, read 3,255,787 times
Reputation: 6707
If you have to ask this, it is matter of JEALOUSY. It is just like saying why should Public School Teachers gets Summers off when I work in the Business World and only get 2 weeks off. Jealous.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,631 posts, read 2,326,726 times
Reputation: 4400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
As best I know, what you claim certainly is not true for Federal employees.

"Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year."

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

Does this make sense to you?
Most Federal workers do not make the "average" or anywhere near it.

The "average" figure is high because the SES (Senior Executive Service) employees have pay that is significantly higher than the average Federal worker.

SES employees are the Federal equivalent of senior VPs and other comparable positions in the corporate world but are paid a fraction of what their corporate counterparts earn and in many cases, they have far greater responsibilities as well, such as national security, law enforcement, critical infrastructure protection, national defense, public safety, public health and welfare, etc.

Additionally, Federal employees tend to possess more and higher levels of education than private sector workers. This is not just my opinion but has been shown to be the case in study after study conducted by both public and private sector organizations.

Also, many of not most Federal employees are also required to pass a background check regarding their suitability for Federal employment. Many positions require qualifying for a security clearance related to sensitive information that is not available to the general public. Depending on the position, the exposure of such sensitive information can have grave implications regarding national security, public safety, and personal information regarding individuals or proprietary information regarding corporations.

So, in short, yes, it makes sense that Federal employees are paid, what they are paid.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,631 posts, read 2,326,726 times
Reputation: 4400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Is that still true that public sector people make less than private sector people? Do public sector people raise a family on a walmart or Starbucks salary? It's just a cheap excuse. Public sector employees don't want their prosperity to go down. Understandable. People want more. But it's unreasonable when everyone else is suffering in this economy, while public employees refuse to sacrifice as if they are superior human beings. This is a privileged attitude. It's often said that they care about the middle class. But that's not true. The bull of the middle class is suffering. The ones not willing to pay their fair share, to sacrifice, are public sector employees.

Starve others to preserve oneself using the police power of the government.
You're taking the bait and falling right into the divide and conquer trap.

Public sector employees are not the enemy.

Public sector employees are not a drag on the economy.

Unchecked corporate greed and only unchecked corporate greed is what is hurting our economy.

Prosecute these corporate "robber baron" bankers and make them accountable and you will see an immediate positive change in our economy.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:45 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,539,956 times
Reputation: 17990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
Should tax paying citizens who do not have a pension plan going for them be required to fund the pensions of others?

Few private sector employees have a pension plan in this day and age. However, most public sector employees (municipal, state and Federal) have pension plans that are funded in whole or in part from taxes imposed on all people in their respective tax base.

In my mind, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to require people who don't have a pension to fund the pensions of people in the public sector. If it were up to me, I would provide for a tax credit for people without a pension plan or, better yet, pass a law that required all public sector employees to fund their own pensions.

What makes sense to you?
that is like asking should those without pensions pay same price on goods to fund pensions. But the that can extend to health insurance and not just private but public provided funding for anything.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:13 PM
 
617 posts, read 515,150 times
Reputation: 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
surely someone, somewhere noted that those who made the decision (that others didn't make) to work for an employer who offered a pension plan and who now benefit from that happen to pay taxes, too.
Ahh....it's all about choice...everyone has the same opportunity to get one of those cushy public sector jobs. All you have to do is meet the qualifications, apply, get an interview and be offered the job.

As other posters have said, this is all about jeolousy and THEIR poor decisions.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,213 posts, read 11,622,868 times
Reputation: 17451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
As best I know, what you claim certainly is not true for Federal employees.

"Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year."

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

Does this make sense to you?
"Average" is a slippery term when you are looking at high paying jobs like congress or the supreme court. I bet most of the high wage federal jobs are in Washington DC. The same thing is true of college professors, who get lumped in with coaches who rake in $1.5 million a year. If you look at the average, they are pretty well paid, while the truth is that the median pay is about $25,000 a year.

Reporters cook numbers all the time to make a story. As soon as numbers show up in a new story, it's a good bet they are lying to you. Or, as Mark Twain noted, "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics."
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,213 posts, read 11,622,868 times
Reputation: 17451
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
What's more, that doesn't even begin to factor in more generous vacations, better policies on leave of absence, Federal and State holidays, and a human resources policy that makes it almost impossible, short of the commission of a felony, to fire a government worker at all. So the average government works less than his private sector counterpart, gets paid more on average, gets more benefits, gets a pension, and has zero bottom-line accountability. Who in God's name could possibly resent that?
There is no doubt that private sector employees are getting royally screwed by their employers. I just don't understand why you aren't mad at the employers rather than other workers. You should be getting vacations, sick leave, paid holidays, reasonable job security and a guaranteed pension. You have signed into a work contract that is all in favor of your employer and leaves you with nothing. That's not the fault of public workers, that is your fault.
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Old 05-29-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,011 posts, read 1,135,421 times
Reputation: 3910
The main reason is that the private employers have way more applicants than jobs, so they are in the catbird seat. Typically, there is intense competition for decent Federal or State jobs, BECAUSE of the benefits. The number of public employees has to continue to grow as the population grows. No choice for the most part. Yet the percentage of the pool of qualified, drug free people drops every year, as more and more of the bulk of the population is less educated and has entitement atitudes. Being a Federal or State employee has no allure today. Many years ago it was a job choice, just like all the other jobs that were available. The disparity between public and private is indeed due to corporate greed mandates from the 0.1% major stockholders, who are also high government officials making choices that do not benefit the average person that just wants a good job with fair pay and benfits in their own country. They are making choices that benefit the 0.1%.
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