Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-28-2014, 10:05 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
Reputation: 4130

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
It seems ol' Beardsley is making the case that at one time this income tax was necessary, but no longer. One needs to ask themselves what has changed to merit this position?

From the synopsis, "Mr. Ruml does not say precisely how in that case the government would pay its own bills. One may assume that it would either shave its expenses out of the proceeds of taxes levied for social and economic ends or print the money it needs."

Also, "
The corporation income tax cannot be abolished until some method is found to keep the corporate form from being used as a refuge from the individual income tax and as a means of accumulating unneeded, uninvested surpluses. Some way must be devised whereby the corporation earnings, which inure to the individual stockholders, are adequately taxed as income of these individuals."

So he is talking about abolishing the corporate income tax, but not the individual income tax? Or talking out of both sides of his mouth?

Sounds a bit like a man with an agenda, or his eye on a public sector job!
I don't think Ruml is saying to eliminate all taxes, as there are other reasons for taxes apart from running Gov't.

"What Taxes Are Really For

Federal taxes can be made to serve four principal purposes of a social and economic character. These purposes are:

1. As an instrument of fiscal policy to help stabilize the purchasing power of the dollar;

2. To express public policy in the distribution of wealth and of income, as in the case of the progressive income and estate taxes;

3. To express public policy in subsidizing or in penalizing various industries and economic groups;

4. To isolate and assess directly the costs of certain national benefits, such as highways and social security"

Ruml might have desired to eliminate corporate taxes, as they are merely paid by consumers anyway.

But as in today's 'C' and 'S' corps, there are laws to prevent schemes to hide personal income.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-28-2014, 10:07 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Then there is the irony that the Mises Institute is quoting a guy who is a central banker and says,

" Two changes of the greatest consequence have occurred in the last twenty-five years which have substantially altered the position of the national state with respect to the financing of its current requirements.

The first of these changes is the gaining of vast new experience in the management of central banks.
The second change is the elimination, for domestic purposes, of the convertibility of the currency into gold."


While Beardsley seems to take no issue with either phenomenon.
Where does Mises quote someone who must be one of their nemesis? (nemeses?)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,330,688 times
Reputation: 21891
Why do we need Taxes? How else will the Government pay suppliers $800 for hammers that cost $5 at Harbor Freight. How else will we pay for all the takers of the nation that want to sit at home having kids and getting fat while the working class gets to support them. Then again that is not exactly true since most of the tax revenue comes from the wealthy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 11:50 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Why do we need Taxes? How else will the Government pay suppliers $800 for hammers that cost $5 at Harbor Freight. How else will we pay for all the takers of the nation that want to sit at home having kids and getting fat while the working class gets to support them. Then again that is not exactly true since most of the tax revenue comes from the wealthy.
Depending mostly on politics and the state of our general economy, through money creation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
352 posts, read 324,528 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
In any system of government in which the people are said to have some degree of self rule, it is incumbent on those people to have a rudimental understanding of how the system actually works.
We have in our current system a Federal Income Tax which has a substantial effect on the wealth of at least some portion of our population. So what is the purpose of this income tax?
Um, to pay for the goods and services provided by the government that we the people have elected to provide us with goods and services.

You need money to pay for stuff. It's this really amazing concept.

The idea that it's only to strengthen the dollar is a fallacy. The federal, state, and local income taxes will collect about $2.2 trillion in 2014.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 02:59 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,401,995 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeYourInvestments View Post
Um, to pay for the goods and services provided by the government that we the people have elected to provide us with goods and services.

You need money to pay for stuff. It's this really amazing concept.
Actually no. Taxes don't fund anything. Taxes are strictly to deflate the currency and regulate policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 03:01 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,401,995 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
There are many factors beyond simple money debasement that affect the value of any currency. In fact recently the dollar is gaining. Despite the Fed creating many billions of new money.

50 Factors that Affect the Value of the US Dollar – Currency Trading.net

The price of oil has had a much large impact on our inflation that simple money creation.

Oil Prices vs the CPI - Historical Chart | MacroTrends

–Federal deficit spending doesn’t cause inflation; oil does «#Monetary Sovereignty - Mitchell #Monetary Sovereignty – Mitchell

IMO lower taxation is always the way to go in a weak economy.
That's because oil prices are the main global driver of demand-pull inflation.

Oil ----> Demand pull inflation ----> cost-push inflation (transport costs to businesses)

Whether we trade in dollars, chickens, or fairy tales... there will still be inflation as long as there is a global demand for energy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2014, 03:16 PM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
That's because oil prices are the main global driver of demand-pull inflation.

Oil ----> Demand pull inflation ----> cost-push inflation (transport costs to businesses)

Whether we trade in dollars, chickens, or fairy tales... there will still be inflation as long as there is a global demand for energy.
That effect though does tend to wane moving forward from the '70's, but still stronger than simple money debasement.

Labor Day gas prices cheapest since 2010
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2014, 12:55 AM
 
4,765 posts, read 3,730,510 times
Reputation: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Where does Mises quote someone who must be one of their nemesis? (nemeses?)
Since Mises is the go to source for libertarians and Beardsley seems to have no problem with going off the gold standard for "domestic purposes" and by complicity is endorsing central banking (both anathema to the libertarian ideal) I find it amusing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2014, 09:08 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Since Mises is the go to source for libertarians and Beardsley seems to have no problem with going off the gold standard for "domestic purposes" and by complicity is endorsing central banking (both anathema to the libertarian ideal) I find it amusing.
Are you saying Ruml was a Libertarian?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top