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Old 08-25-2014, 02:04 AM
 
Location: London
4,351 posts, read 3,647,052 times
Reputation: 1982

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Joseph Stiglitz....[indent]We should tax environmental "bads" such as pollution,
and switch from taxing good things like labor.
- Joseph Stiglitz

Let's stop taxing good things like Labor, and tax
commonly owned resources like oil and land.
- Joseph Stiglitz

http://pastebin.com/818dWbFa

http://www.josephstiglitz.com/

Moderator cut: copyright issues

Last edited by Marka; 08-28-2014 at 08:54 AM..
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:50 PM
 
1,013 posts, read 769,814 times
Reputation: 484
Well we already said to do a sales tax or property tax while repealing income tax but some people are so stuck up in their heads about it.

so instead I proposed a compromise of an inefficiency tax to tax sloth.

when you buy property if you do not live on it and do not do anything with it except leave it there then you would be taxed 10% of the total market value of said property.

more you use it the less tax then.

say 90% use rate then it would be 1% tax then.
100% = 0% tax.

meaning if you live on the whole property yourself then you do not pay any tax.
provided a certain sq foot of course.

each 10 years it will be determined by the census population count.

total land/total citizens

please note that illegals and immigrants/foreigners will be taxed to the hilt because they should not own any piece of land here if they are not citizens.

if they are USA citizens then they can own land.
else imo they should not be able to.

sorry that would destroy the land market but it is to protect our national interests.
our nation is for citizens not foreigners after all
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:25 AM
 
Location: London
4,351 posts, read 3,647,052 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
Well we already said to do a sales tax or property tax while repealing income tax but some people are so stuck up in their heads about it.
Income tax is penalizing production. Sales taxes penalize trade. The two things we should not be penalizing.
Quote:
so instead I proposed a compromise of an inefficiency tax to tax sloth.
If someone wants to be lazy then that is their business. Who decides what is sloth?
Quote:
when you buy property if you do not live on it and do not do anything with it except leave it there then you would be taxed 10% of the total market value of said property.
Your ideas are too complex and open to abuse. Land Valuation Tax covers all that and even more. Static items, like land, cannot be taken abroad and any levy cannot be avoided. It is reclaiming commonly created value that soaked into the land crystalizing as land values. The building, the Capital, is exempt.
What is LVT?
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:49 PM
 
4,130 posts, read 3,854,346 times
Reputation: 3041
Land value tax is one of the oldest versions of taxation that has a lot of practical issues with urbanization, tax dodging, concerns of efficiency, and limited revenue generated. Not that it is wrong, it's still in use today in some areas (including the US), but it has a lot of issues that limit its use.

In areas where it is in use there have been no clear benefits compared to other forms. It doesn't really affect inequality...such as Russia it is in use that has staggering income inequality. It's one of those ideas that people look at think if it can be done right then it would be perfect, but no one can figure out how.

Speak to it all one wants and work on figuring it out. Joseph Stiglitz has worked on it for a long time, and refined it year after year with many issues he has yet to solve, but I hope he does. Implementing it before these basic debates are fully hashed out is pure lunacy (some are quite basic, like data in reality not matching his models to justify it). It's like implementing national fuel cell transit (and exclude fossil fuel transit) before any can be mass produced, stations don't exist in a safe form for regular consumers, and supply chains are non-existent.

I would like both if they are practical, not if they are fantasies of hopes and dreams.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: London
4,351 posts, read 3,647,052 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
Land value tax is one of the oldest versions of taxation that has a lot of practical issues with urbanization, tax dodging, concerns of efficiency, and limited revenue generated. Not that it is wrong, it's still in use today in some areas (including the US), but it has a lot of issues that limit its use.
LVT prevents tax dodging. The location of land is known to the inch. It cannot be avoided. LVT forces land into productive use and eliminates land speculation. You only need LVT and Pigovian taxes. The rest can go.
Quote:
In areas where it is in use there have been no clear benefits compared to other forms. It doesn't really affect inequality...such as Russia it is in use that has staggering income inequality. It's one of those ideas that people look at think if it can be done right then it would be perfect, but no one can figure out how.
You are confused. Russia does have LVT. LVT gives a "fair" distribution in wealth for sure. It has been implemented all over the world in small doses. Each implementation has been a massive success. LVT is the core of the Taiwan success story:
Edward J. Dodson / Taiwan: A Georgist Success Story? -- 2006

It is also instrumental in the success of Singapore.
Quote:
Speak to it all one wants and work on figuring it out. Joseph Stiglitz has worked on it for a long time, and refined it year after year with many issues he has yet to solve, but I hope he does. Implementing it before these basic debates are fully hashed out is pure lunacy
LVT was not Stiglitz's idea. In the modern era American economist Henry George popularized it in the USA. Winston Churchill nearly got implemented in the UK - the only war he ever lost was to the British landlords.

Juts four Land Value Tax success stories:

* The “Four Tigers”, 1940s.
* Taiwan, 1940s.
* Denmark
* Estonia, 1990s.


Summary of some of the advantages of a land tax:[list=1]

Moderator cut: copyright issues Successfull examples of land value tax reforms &raquo P2P Foundation

Get to know exactly what LVT is, which is apart of Geonomics. You clearly do not. It reclaims commonly created wealth to pay for common services, leaving privately earned wealth in private pockets.

Look at this post as well. It will simply matters for you:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/34012122-post1.html

Last edited by Marka; 08-27-2014 at 10:03 AM..
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:45 AM
 
Location: London
4,351 posts, read 3,647,052 times
Reputation: 1982
How to avoid land speculation and stop boom and busts.

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Old 08-27-2014, 06:39 AM
 
1,013 posts, read 769,814 times
Reputation: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Income tax is penalizing production. Sales taxes penalize trade. The two things we should not be penalizing.

If someone wants to be lazy then that is their business. Who decides what is sloth?

Your ideas are too complex and open to abuse. Land Valuation Tax covers all that and even more. Static items, like land, cannot be taken abroad and any levy cannot be avoided. It is reclaiming commonly created value that soaked into the land crystalizing as land values. The building, the Capital, is exempt.
What is LVT?

Well now at least in property if you buy a huge amount of land and not use it for a very long time say over 1 year.

and you just keep it there doing nothing.
Well why did you do that?
isn't that just a WASTE OF RESOURCES?

if it is a waste of resources then that should be heavily punished.
the land itself is after all always by the people themselves.

since government has eminent domain land is never going to be yours officially we are all plebs on a farm anyway. thus if that is the case tax those that would just land speculate without contributing anything to make the land better.

each citizen shall get landarea/citizenpopulation in tax free land per 10 years.
if you consume more than that then you pay tax.


how much you pay in tax shall be determined by how much it is utilized 10% for 0% usage.
1% for 90% usage and 0-.9% for 90-100% usage.

if you just make them parks then the amount of revenue from visitors you bring in such that they can be taxed shall be determined.

It would be more of a sales + property tax.

Income tax shall be abolished for the citizens first and then corporate taxes can later be abolished if done right.
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:08 AM
 
Location: London
4,351 posts, read 3,647,052 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
how much you pay in tax shall be determined by how much it is utilized 10% for 0% usage.
1% for 90% usage and 0-.9% for 90-100% usage.
Land Value Tax does it automatically, and market regulating, by using the land's "value" which is easily known.

Quote:
Income tax shall be abolished for the citizens first and then corporate taxes can later be abolished if done right.
Yep. If it is done right. Geonomics using LVT as its core is the foolproof way.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:49 AM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,637,549 times
Reputation: 6391
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
Well we already said to do a sales tax or property tax while repealing income tax but some people are so stuck up in their heads about it.

That would be because sales taxes are stupid and I cannot find one respectable historical figure who recommended it in political economy until such time the 20th century economic propaganda machine was up and running.


Quote:
so instead I proposed a compromise of an inefficiency tax to tax sloth.

when you buy property if you do not live on it and do not do anything with it except leave it there then you would be taxed 10% of the total market value of said property.
Not bad.



Quote:
more you use it the less tax then.

say 90% use rate then it would be 1% tax then.
100% = 0% tax.
Well the problem is was constitutes use? This is a political decision. Taxes based on market values of the "ground rents" are not political but a statement of the value the populace places on the site.



Quote:
meaning if you live on the whole property yourself then you do not pay any tax.
provided a certain sq foot of course.

each 10 years it will be determined by the census population count.

total land/total citizens

please note that illegals and immigrants/foreigners will be taxed to the hilt because they should not own any piece of land here if they are not citizens.

if they are USA citizens then they can own land.
else imo they should not be able to.

sorry that would destroy the land market but it is to protect our national interests.
our nation is for citizens not foreigners after all
I do think that under our historical belief of natural law that each person is entitled to some space in which to live and I would have no problem with an exemption allowance.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:19 AM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,637,549 times
Reputation: 6391
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
Land value tax is one of the oldest versions of taxation that has a lot of practical issues with urbanization, tax dodging, concerns of efficiency, and limited revenue generated. Not that it is wrong, it's still in use today in some areas (including the US), but it has a lot of issues that limit its use.
Nice scholarly wikipoedia article you got there. Show us more of what you know .



Quote:
In areas where it is in use there have been no clear benefits compared to other forms. It doesn't really affect inequality...such as Russia it is in use that has staggering income inequality. It's one of those ideas that people look at think if it can be done right then it would be perfect, but no one can figure out how.
What sort of babbling nonsense is this about? More from your vast resources of knowledge about what you claim to know about "Russia"? And I loath the reference since it was just another conquered province of the Soviet Empire. There was no "Russia". You use ridiculous refutations and make these rare air appeals to conspiracies or idealsim without actually refuting them.

You knew a guy who crashed his car therefore your intrest in how cars are engineered is bad.

^
behold thy style of argument.

Its an oft used tactic to dodge the issue and preserve their egos that would otherwise expose their ignorance .

You want to be an authority but you are not either willing or able to commit the resources.


Quote:
Speak to it all one wants and work on figuring it out. Joseph Stiglitz has worked on it for a long time, and refined it year after year with many issues he has yet to solve, but I hope he does. Implementing it before these basic debates are fully hashed out is pure lunacy (some are quite basic, like data in reality not matching his models to justify it). It's like implementing national fuel cell transit (and exclude fossil fuel transit) before any can be mass produced, stations don't exist in a safe form for regular consumers, and supply chains are non-existent.

I would like both if they are practical, not if they are fantasies of hopes and dreams.

Its like....its like..its like . Its like a luminiferous gossamer. Its like a New Yorker in a Sombrero eating rice cakes and sea weed. Its like bonhomie and Kumbaya at the dancing edge of the fire light.....


We used to have the this tax system. So your entire appeal to novelty is, once again, like selling road kill in a hamster cage. Dead meat isn't a companion animal anymore that "land value taxes" are novelties.


Homer Township Assessor's Office
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