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Old 11-13-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,132 posts, read 107,402,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/wo...ies-below&_r=0

' “There are between 300,000 and 500,000 people who are able to work, but their socialization to work is very weak,” said Lajos Kosa, the executive vice president of Mr. Orban’s governing Fidesz party. “They need to be led back to the world of employment, but they are lacking fundamental skills.” '

"Those fundamental skills include showing up for work on time or finishing an assigned task, he said."

That's what we need here. Too many people are languishing, unfulfilled, with no purpose in life. Well-intentioned or not, welfare programs keep them there. We should follow Hungary's lead. Not job training, no learning new skills, but picking up a tool and using it. Eight hours work for eight hours pay. Everyday, not just when you feel like it. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. We see it everyday.

Give people a chance to earn money and they'll earn respect. Then they can get on with their lives.
The US did have that. It was called "Workfare". I'm not sure now when that happened, maybe under Clinton? It wasn't nationwide, only certain states had it.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...22596/workfare
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:35 AM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,682,701 times
Reputation: 18304
What he describes is available at job centers and its called Life skills; nothing new there. Last I read local it cost taxpayers 300 + for each person taking the course. The truth is you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink as we have seen in our schools. Then if you ask people who ignored available schooling many will tell you that its unlikely you can ever replace not taking advantage of it starting at young age. Too many think they can just start over at older age but few really accomplish it. You cannot now days convince many young people of that; more success is gotten with a parent's influence starting at pre-school age. Even the school system is not aiming to provide what a students that care the best possible but passing people thru the system ;really. Any system that endangers that system is politically not allowed in public system. even tho its clear that the system is failing by rankings lowering time after time. In a more complicated world with so much world competition than earlier times its clear its the real cause of wealth gap.
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:52 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,780,413 times
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It's not workfare, it's not life skills, it's not a course. What it is: recipients get a small benefit whether they work or not. If they work, they get paid.

They don't sit around taking a class, it's not a line on their tax return, it's showing up for work at 8 AM and working till 5 PM, in general terms. For this, you get paid and your community gets cleaned up.

If you been a spectator at school, too bad. You can cry later. If you never had a papa growing up, complain about it on your own time. Work doesn't cure everything but it will cure those things.
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Old 11-13-2014, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,880,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The US did have that. It was called "Workfare". I'm not sure now when that happened, maybe under Clinton? It wasn't nationwide, only certain states had it.
workfare (social welfare program) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
Oregon had a "Workfare" program in the late 50s/early 60s. I knew several people who were in that program including my stepdad. This was back when there were still complete families and not nearly as many single moms as today. My stepdad got on a bus every morning and they were taken out to jobs. The did roadside cleaning, brush cutting, trash picking up, etc. etc. every day, all day, for that 'welfare check'. No wonder Oregon was so pretty! It was only the men who had to work like that and the women still stayed home and raised the kids. Back then, too, they actually had welfare workers who visited the homes at least once a month. That would be impossible today but I keep thinking if Oregon did it over 50 years ago why can't they do it now? I did know one single mom who got Welfare back then. They helped pay her rent and utilities, food, paid for her to go to community college, paid her childcare expenses and actually helped her find a job when her school was finished. Can't afford that kind of help anymore.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:01 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,392,179 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
Oregon had a "Workfare" program in the late 50s/early 60s. I knew several people who were in that program including my stepdad. This was back when there were still complete families and not nearly as many single moms as today. My stepdad got on a bus every morning and they were taken out to jobs. The did roadside cleaning, brush cutting, trash picking up, etc. etc. every day, all day, for that 'welfare check'. No wonder Oregon was so pretty! It was only the men who had to work like that and the women still stayed home and raised the kids. Back then, too, they actually had welfare workers who visited the homes at least once a month. That would be impossible today but I keep thinking if Oregon did it over 50 years ago why can't they do it now? I did know one single mom who got Welfare back then. They helped pay her rent and utilities, food, paid for her to go to community college, paid her childcare expenses and actually helped her find a job when her school was finished. Can't afford that kind of help anymore.

This was common experience for welfare mothers at the time. This was hated by liberals, who sneered at what they called the "no man in the house" rule when applied to single mothers. It was one of the perceived annoyances that resulted in a 'welfare rights' movement which ultimately succeeded (1969) in Congress ending the MINIMUM income requirements for public housing which had kept out welfare recipients.
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Old 11-14-2014, 12:54 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,537,458 times
Reputation: 4283
Default Learn What The Communist System Of Government Is Before You Comment

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Rzzzz, it's not a communist employment
program. Fidesz is anything but communist. It's nationalist and conservative.
Mussolini would feel more at home in it than Lenin ever would. No
Internationale here!
Quote:

Howest2008, I don't know much about the WPA except that it was one of the New
Deal programs to put people back to work during the Great Depression. Maybe it
was intended to be permanent, maybe not. But it originated in response to a
great economic collapse of 1929 that resulted in 25% unemployment. Hungary's
program is not like that. It tries to put to work people who are chronically
and maybe generationally not working, mostly not because the economy went in the
tank but because they can't get onboard for one reason or another. As such, it
is part of the permanent welfare landscape. Replacing much of it, it is hoped.
I hope what kind of party or system thought of a policy doesn't matter more
than if the policy is good or bad. Genocide is bad whether done by Nazis or
Communists. Social employment could be good whether done by Republicans or
Democrats.

This is to Rzzzz
stop lying about " working for safety net governmental benefits making a person a dye in the wool communist will you " it not part and particle of the Communist Government Model.....

Communist manifesto | Define Communist manifesto at Dictionary.com

The communist manifesto | Define The communist manifesto at Dictionary.com

The Communist Manifesto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Talking for myself howest2008 we have got to stop giving away Governmental Benefits without giving those that receive those benefits a sense of " Pride and Personhood " that's all that I mean by trying to bring back the " WPA ".......and having people work for the " Charity That They Receive "....
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:58 PM
 
30,876 posts, read 36,858,638 times
Reputation: 34467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/wo...ies-below&_r=0

' “There are between 300,000 and 500,000 people who are able to work, but their socialization to work is very weak,” said Lajos Kosa, the executive vice president of Mr. Orban’s governing Fidesz party. “They need to be led back to the world of employment, but they are lacking fundamental skills.” '

"Those fundamental skills include showing up for work on time or finishing an assigned task, he said."

That's what we need here. Too many people are languishing, unfulfilled, with no purpose in life. Well-intentioned or not, welfare programs keep them there. We should follow Hungary's lead. Not job training, no learning new skills, but picking up a tool and using it. Eight hours work for eight hours pay. Everyday, not just when you feel like it. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. We see it everyday.

Give people a chance to earn money and they'll earn respect. Then they can get on with their lives.
I agree with all this. But it will never happen unless we have massive public protests about it. Welfare programs in the U.S., and I suspect other Western countries as well, are designed to keep people dependent on the state. This is their primary purpose. When people are kept comfortable (however that is defined), they will remain willfully blind to the increasingly oppressive nature of their own government, at home and abroad.
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Hell
377 posts, read 669,002 times
Reputation: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
These are exactly the people who Hungary's approach would help the most: people who don't even know about the world of work. Their lives are just dribbling away, figuratively as well as literally. Some are just plain lazy but I think the great majority would welcome and appreciate a step they could use to climb to a different life.
I completely agree!
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Hell
377 posts, read 669,002 times
Reputation: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
I suffer from a neurological disorder so painful that I'm often bedridden a good portion of my day. Sometimes the meds work - sometimes they don't. The pain makes my life a living hell. In fact, I just came down from a 10 day streak of non-stop pain. I mean real pain ... not a little ache or sting.

What sickens me is how I've been denied disability twice - because the system is almost designed to screw over honest people while handing all the benefits to the fraudsters. The government has NO ONE else to blame but itself. One thing I've learned damn quickly is that, if you want government assistance, especially disability, you have to lie your ass right off your legs and onto the floor. Because if you tell the truth, you'll be shown the door.

That's why there is so much fraud and abuse ... the system allows dishonest people to THRIVE. Professional liars and thieves can breeze through the system and collect their checks with ease. It's people like me who go into the system thinking, "I really AM disabled so there's no reason not to tell the truth" who end up getting a shaft so far up the butt that that we're choking on it.

I'm sick of navigating a system that is biased against me. Guilty until proven innocent. I'm tired of the sneaky tricks, the loaded questions, the disability doctors who try to deceive you into admitting some tiny little fact that instantly disqualifies you.

Here's one of my favorites: "Can you sit for four hours?" Yeah, seems innocuous enough. Most people can sit for four hours so they'll naively say they can. Oops. Now the government will assume you can work part time and deny your claim. They don't ask honest and pertinent questions like, "Can you sit for four hours while performing a task - and can you maintain a predictable schedule each and every week?" They don't ask questions like, "Would any of your current medications make it difficult or impossible to perform work-related tasks or be a reliable employee?"

They'll send you questionaires with questions like, "Can you cook your own meals?" Well, uh, if by cooking you mean putting something in the microwave, yes. I suppose if I was hungry enough I could endure the pain long enough to stand at the counter and make food. BUT ... if you answer yes, they'll assume you can go work at a restaurant. Because in their eyes, spending 5 minutes waiting for the microwave once or twice a day is the same thing as being able to cook meals 8 to 10 hours per day, every day, standing on your feet. If you can brush your teeth for 3 minutes, it means you can hold a pen all day long and perform clerical tasks.

These cloying little questions they ask that trip up honest people who don't know how to game the system, this causes the truly disabled to suffer in poverty and the fear of becoming homeless while the perfectly healthy waltz around with their monthly disability check, playing hoops in the playground, hiking, working on their roofs, traveling, and having a life-long vacation on money that I could really use!

As far as welfare being connected to work ... well, sorry, but those of us who really are disabled and who are fighting the system which often takes years, we tend to rely on welfare, especially Medicaid, to stay alive. We aren't actually classified as "officially" disabled yet, and we can't just up and go to work in order to keep benefits while the on-going unfair battle with the government continues - and the inevitable bout with disability lawyers who enjoy sitting on your case for as long as possible to maximize your disability backpay and hence their own paychecks.
The system should be there for people in your situation. But like you pointed out, it is not. I am guessing you are fighting for Social Security Disability? You probably have not been coached on what to say and what not to say because you are not from a generational lifer welfare family. You are probably seeing a legit doctor and not one of the known ones who will sign anything for a price.
Our current system is an absolute disgrace! Good luck to you.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:01 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,780,413 times
Reputation: 5818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Avocado View Post
The system should be there for people in your situation. But like you pointed out, it is not. I am guessing you are fighting for Social Security Disability? You probably have not been coached on what to say and what not to say because you are not from a generational lifer welfare family. You are probably seeing a legit doctor and not one of the known ones who will sign anything for a price.
Our current system is an absolute disgrace! Good luck to you.
In 1970, about 25 workers per thousand were on SSDI. In 2011, it's 75 per thousand. That is approaching 10% of workers being disabled. That leads me to believe that 2 out of 3 of SSDI recipients are fakers. It is ludicrous on is its face.

How is it that, when most of the hard work, dangerous jobs have vanished from the American economy, and after all the advances that have been made in medical treatment, rehabilitation, etc., the proportion of American workers on disability has tripled in 40 years? Not to mention the efforts of OSHA.

SSDI has become a form of long term unemployment compensation. Peoples job in many industries and many cities just disappeared. The solution is to put these people to work doing the work that is available, i.e. social employment. The answer is not to put them on the shelf, i.e., SSDI.
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