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Old 11-28-2014, 05:12 PM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosopis View Post
Ok, granted some accounting of it is built in. However I disagree with your assertion that the real rate of inflation can be fixed. Only if you agree with guys like Opin-yunated. In reality, poor monetary policy does cause the rate of inflation to increase.
It can't be perfectly fixed but it can be approximately fixed if monetary policy is made accordingly (which, of course, it may not be).

In the vast majority of years going back to 1920, the rate of inflation of the USD was between 1% - 5%. Yes, there have been exceptions, both above and below that range.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
This works out to over $988,000 per taxpayer:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
No it doesn't, the stat is right next to the debt stat. It works out to $153,000 per taxpayer, or $56,000 per citizen. It's in your own link.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SquareBetterThanAll View Post
No it doesn't, the stat is right next to the debt stat. It works out to $153,000 per taxpayer, or $56,000 per citizen. It's in your own link.
They are both in there. Debt per taxpayer is $153,000 per taxpayer, unfunded liability (near the bottom of the chart/clock) is $988,000. UL is not the same thing as debt - it includes future shortfalls of revenue compared to promised benefits (SS, Medicare, etc.)
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
They are both in there. Debt per taxpayer is $153,000 per taxpayer, unfunded liability (near the bottom of the chart/clock) is $988,000. UL is not the same thing as debt - it includes future shortfalls of revenue compared to promised benefits (SS, Medicare, etc.)
Correct you are. My mistake.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:42 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
What are the Implications of $116 Trillion unfunded liabilities?
Much of that number is and will be assets held by we the people and our Gov't.

And $116T is way less than the current value of our National assets. Which are only bound to inflate in price moving forward.

So on balance the implications are modest at worst.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
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What are the Implications of $116 Trillion unfunded liabilities?

Simple, those liabilities will be funded by way of the printing press, and it will happen at a time when the earning potential of the US is falling due to the demographics retirement of the boomers.

Some of the inflation of this printing will be offset however by the deflationary forces derived from the default of debt in the private sector and the default of debts by states and local communities.

The federal government has the ability to print its way out of debt, while states, local governments, and private companies and citizens do not.

The biggest unknown in this equation will be the effect of the financial industry when the 215 trillion dollars held in debt in the form of derivatives begin to default. This has the potential to cause deflation on a scale that no one has seen since 1929 and could easily more than offset any inflation caused by government printing.

We currently have a system that is a house of cards in which hundreds of trillions of dollars of debt exist justified by the speculative future earnings of the US workforce to fund the service of those debts.

The problem is that both the number of people participating in the workforce, and their real earnings are declining. Also we are entering a period in which mechanization is quickly becoming the cost effective alternative to humans, and will certainly have a huge impact on the future workforce.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:20 AM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Much of that number is and will be assets held by we the people and our Gov't.

And $116T is way less than the current value of our National assets. Which are only bound to inflate in price moving forward.

So on balance the implications are modest at worst.
According to the clock our assets are just $113 Trillion.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
According to the clock our assets are just $113 Trillion.
Most numbers I have seen are much higher than that. Especially as calculated as future asset values. I would think more reasonable when comparing to our future obligations.

If my personal assets are X, I can very easily borrow X.

Our Federal Gov't is monetarily sovereign, so borrowing X is much easier. The Feds create the debt, they don't actually borrow money in a conventional sense like I do. So we can always pay off national debt.

Modern Monetary Theory Primer - New Economic PerspectivesNew Economic Perspectives
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:57 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
What are the Implications of $116 Trillion unfunded liabilities?

Simple, those liabilities will be funded by way of the printing press, and it will happen at a time when the earning potential of the US is falling due to the demographics retirement of the boomers.

Some of the inflation of this printing will be offset however by the deflationary forces derived from the default of debt in the private sector and the default of debts by states and local communities.

The federal government has the ability to print its way out of debt, while states, local governments, and private companies and citizens do not.

The biggest unknown in this equation will be the effect of the financial industry when the 215 trillion dollars held in debt in the form of derivatives begin to default. This has the potential to cause deflation on a scale that no one has seen since 1929 and could easily more than offset any inflation caused by government printing.

We currently have a system that is a house of cards in which hundreds of trillions of dollars of debt exist justified by the speculative future earnings of the US workforce to fund the service of those debts.

The problem is that both the number of people participating in the workforce, and their real earnings are declining. Also we are entering a period in which mechanization is quickly becoming the cost effective alternative to humans, and will certainly have a huge impact on the future workforce.
Some very good points.

But I would consider our future total national productivity in real and current terms, as opposed to wages earned, as being more meaningful. Which we have been seeing increases for some time now. Future technologies suggest this will continue.

Your described economic disaster already occurred in 2008. And we are still here. Our economic systems are very robust despite all the shenanigans. And a much larger central monetary effort could have happened if it had been necessary.
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:58 AM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Most numbers I have seen are much higher than that. Especially as calculated as future asset values. I would think more reasonable when comparing to our future obligations.

If my personal assets are X, I can very easily borrow X.

Our Federal Gov't is monetarily sovereign, so borrowing X is much easier. The Feds create the debt, they don't actually borrow money in a conventional sense like I do. So we can always pay off national debt.

Modern Monetary Theory Primer - New Economic PerspectivesNew Economic Perspectives
If the X is your house, you can only borrow about 0.9 * X typically (and even that requires that you have a job that can documentably support repayment!). If the X is in a brokerage account, you can only borrow 0.7 * X.
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