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Old 12-09-2014, 01:52 PM
 
595 posts, read 560,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Well, yes and no. I would say that Boomer labor had the leverage necessary to demand the pay they deserved, while prior and future generations did not. GM depends just as much on labor to produce their cars now as they did in the 50s, and in fact each laborer produces much more now than back then due to technology. But labor today doesn't have the leverage to turn hard work into a share of the profits.
There is no deserved rate, only the market rate. The only way they could have that leverage was because significantly less competition.

Competition is the norm, the leverage they had was abnormal and a fluke.

You could replace the boomers with today's children and they would be just as successful
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboibob View Post
There is no deserved rate, only the market rate.
Based on what? The fact that all the workers in the world don't get together and demand fair wages has nothing to do with lack of deserving, and everything to do with the difficulties of organizing large numbers of people (labor) compared to small numbers of people (capital).

The market rate is just the rate that has been currently agreed upon. There's no question that it exists; the debate is, what can we do about it?
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,953,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
I would say that Boomer labor had the leverage necessary to demand the pay they deserved...
...because that Effective Labor Union Mindset was still the norm then.
Their fathers and grandfathers blood and sweat got them those wage rates.

Quote:
But labor today doesn't have the leverage to turn hard work into a share of the profits.
The Boomer Generation Labor got itself turned around in the 70's when at the same time
and by the same people who were shuttering their industries.

It started with the Trailer park Republicans. Their college grad cousins called it Entrepreneurship

Last edited by MrRational; 12-09-2014 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,354 posts, read 60,546,019 times
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Just a note for those of you who are History/Timeline challenged:

The first Baby Boomers were born in 1945/46. They weren't working in car factories, steel mills or coal mines in the 1950's. They also didn't start voting (except maybe in a couple states) until 1966 at the earliest.

Also, and someone alluded to it, women started entering the workforce in large numbers starting in the 1970's, thereby nearly doubling the number of available workers. Supply and demand works on wages, too. Even in traditionally male occupations such as medicine and law.

When I worked in industry in the 1970's likely at least 1/2 the workforce at the factory were women (at both facilities I worked at). At one some of those women had been working there since WW II.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:01 PM
 
595 posts, read 560,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Based on what? The fact that all the workers in the world don't get together and demand fair wages has nothing to do with lack of deserving, and everything to do with the difficulties of organizing large numbers of people (labor) compared to small numbers of people (capital).

The market rate is just the rate that has been currently agreed upon. There's no question that it exists; the debate is, what can we do about it?
It's just based on supply and demand. College grads today don't have as much purchasing power today as they did once upon a time because of supply and demand.. You know, the forces that control everything.

Fair wages is something imaginary, everyone plays by market forces. If there's a large pool of people that can do the same low skill job, the wage for that job won't be very high
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboibob View Post
It's just based on supply and demand. College grads today don't have as much purchasing power today as they did once upon a time because of supply and demand.. You know, the forces that control everything.

Fair wages is something imaginary, everyone plays by market forces. If there's a large pool of people that can do the same low skill job, the wage for that job won't be very high
I'm aware that supply and demand is a thing that exists. So is gravity, but I still fly on airplanes. It's patently obvious that we have low wages for low-skill jobs because there's more workers than jobs. The question is, what do we do about it? It sounds like your answer is something like, "the poor should fend for themselves in a cruel, uncaring world".
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:58 PM
 
595 posts, read 560,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
I'm aware that supply and demand is a thing that exists. So is gravity, but I still fly on airplanes. It's patently obvious that we have low wages for low-skill jobs because there's more workers than jobs. The question is, what do we do about it? It sounds like your answer is something like, "the poor should fend for themselves in a cruel, uncaring world".
Nature is cruel and supply vs demand is part of nature.

Low wages for low skill jobs give incentives for people to strive for higher wage jobs. For example, working construction with aspirations of becoming contractor/project manager.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:03 PM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,581,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboibob View Post
Nature is cruel and supply vs demand is part of nature.

Low wages for low skill jobs give incentives for people to strive for higher wage jobs. For example, working construction with aspirations of becoming contractor/project manager.
Also, people with higher skills are more versatile than those with low skills. For example, virtually every brain surgeon is CAPABLE of mowing lawns, whereas very few people who mow lawns for a living can do brain surgery!
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:47 PM
 
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Still most will decide to drive I the country as we se now with vehicle sales. I frankly don't see getting in a vehicle with a unknown person; not regulated or associate with a company with insurance as being smart;frankly. As to tech startups the first thing they need is investors. Often they go for years making no profit at all. The first profit are when they go public with IPO and collect the cash from those who buy stock. Watch Shark tank it will give you a idea of now the real world works on startups. of any kind.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:05 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,134,517 times
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The title is extremely misleading. These presidents have transformed their schools into fine institutions. Especially RPI. RPI is an excellent institution that makes great contributions to society and academia. While we can talk about how high that figure it is, at least it's going to someone who has transformed RPI into the well-respected institution of higher education that it is today.
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