Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And here is an example of a person who wants equality of results and explains why.
The problem isn't just equal results. It's whatever reasonable results they want that are subjective and unmeasurable.
How are they subjective and unmeasurable? Because I didn't write a 12 paragraph post outlining the exact studies and rationales and disparities in upbringing captured by the terms "educational resources" and "quality of parents and peers"? They exist, and frankly, one doesn't need to be very precise before laying out goals which clearly and objectively lie far away from our current levels of insane, nearly incomprehensible inequality.
Of course, perfect equality will never be achieved, and perfect sameness is not desirable (nor do I desire it personally), but using a line drawing fallacy to poo poo all movement toward a more socially and economically equal society is unconvincing at best.
Everyone says "be an engineer." To me, that's kind of like being a pro-football player. It's a great aspiration, but most people simply don't have the goods.
Left wingers for the most part do not want equality....they DO want opportunity. They want people of today to have the same opportunity that their parents had. And when its not there, when rent seeking activities are killing the middle and lower classes....they get upset.
Im probably considered by many here to be one of the rabid left wingers. Lets be honest here.....I have little interest in equality of result, and a massive interest in equality of opportunity.
Yes Im all for a safety net, so what? It applies to us all. And most of us are desperately trying to avoid it. Yes i know some small % abuses it, but thats a small %.
You can keep screaming about how the left wants complete equality, and how they want equality of results. Thats simply not true no matter how much you scream and complain that it is.....all the while ignoring the massive inequality of opportunity that is killing our country.
Bingo!
Why do some posters continue to ignore the fact that the American middle-class is now considerably less well-off than the middle class in other western countries? Why?
Is it that that they think that we- the middle class in the US - are all just lazy, entitled twits?
Why do some posters continue to ignore the fact that the American middle-class is now considerably less well-off than the middle class in other western countries? Why?
Is it that that they think that we- the middle class in the US - are all just lazy, entitled twits?
Where did you get that idea that the middle class is doing a lot better in "other western countries." Maybe Norway, where the country is rolling in oil money but certainly not Greece, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. For a huge part of the Eurozone unemployment is a very, very serious issue. Things are not so good for even the countries doing the best, France and Germany.
Certainly there are plenty of Americans who seem to feel entitled to an easy life. Others of us work hard just to get by and sometimes hopefully slowly advance our careers. One this forum there seems to be plenty of people who like to complain and blame the world for failing to meet their expectations. It is amazing how few people talk about their plans to advance or ask questions or look for advice on developing a career.
Where did you get that idea that the middle class is doing a lot better in "other western countries." Maybe Norway, where the country is rolling in oil money but certainly not Greece, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. For a huge part of the Eurozone unemployment is a very, very serious issue. Things are not so good for even the countries doing the best, France and Germany.
Certainly there are plenty of Americans who seem to feel entitled to an easy life. Others of us work hard just to get by and sometimes hopefully slowly advance our careers. One this forum there seems to be plenty of people who like to complain and blame the world for failing to meet their expectations. It is amazing how few people talk about their plans to advance or ask questions or look for advice on developing a career.
They got the sense from the media which overhyped the life in european countries.
The fact is that even when european countries did have better prosperity than us, nearly half of this country didn't want their lifestyle. And today, lots of european countries, some of which you mentioned, have horrendous unemployement rates. It's even less likely that a typical American would find the European way appealing. They have high taxes but low economic performances and opportunity.
Norway is an exception for their natural resources.
In the next three decades, the world will watch europe become more like the USA today.
Everyone says "be an engineer." To me, that's kind of like being a pro-football player. It's a great aspiration, but most people simply don't have the goods.
Exactly. Being an engineer is grueling. My dad is one, and he always works. Not to mention the debt you'll have to go into and the fact you'll most likely have to live in a high COL area. Which negates the large salaries to a great extent.
They got the sense from the media which overhyped the life in european countries.
The fact is that even when european countries did have better prosperity than us, nearly half of this country didn't want their lifestyle. And today, lots of european countries, some of which you mentioned, have horrendous unemployement rates. It's even less likely that a typical American would find the European way appealing. They have high taxes but low economic performances and opportunity.
Norway is an exception for their natural resources.
In the next three decades, the world will watch europe become more like the USA today.
I highly doubt it. There's no doubt Europe has a lot of economic issues, but a lot of that is due to the fact southern and eastern Europe have never been as wealthy as northwestern Europe or North America.
Certainly there are plenty of Americans who seem to feel entitled to an easy life. Others of us work hard just to get by and sometimes hopefully slowly advance our careers. One this forum there seems to be plenty of people who like to complain and blame the world for failing to meet their expectations. It is amazing how few people talk about their plans to advance or ask questions or look for advice on developing a career.
Maybe because the rewards are so slim for most people? Especially as the college bubble gets worse and employers demand people get degrees and go into debt. Welcome to the new indentured servitude. You can be debt free and work low wage jobs and get benefits or you can go to college, MAYBE get a decent job, and completely ruin your credit and have your higher wages garnished for 30 years.
I highly doubt it. There's no doubt Europe has a lot of economic issues, but a lot of that is due to the fact southern and eastern Europe have never been as wealthy as northwestern Europe or North America.
Oh Italy and Greece were quite formidable in times past. While their highpoints were occurred centuries ago, that period of prosperity lasted much longer than the relatively recent good times of NW Europe and North America.
They got the sense from the media which overhyped the life in european countries.
The fact is that even when european countries did have better prosperity than us, nearly half of this country didn't want their lifestyle. And today, lots of european countries, some of which you mentioned, have horrendous unemployement rates. It's even less likely that a typical American would find the European way appealing. They have high taxes but low economic performances and opportunity.
Norway is an exception for their natural resources.
In the next three decades, the world will watch europe become more like the USA today.
Um, no, not from the media, overhyped or not.
The simple fact is that some of us come from wealthy, western countries where one sees less social stratification and less poverty than in the US. And we can't help but wonder why these social ills exist to the extent they do in an incredible country like the USA (a country that I love, btw). So, no, not from the media. We got "the sense" from our own eyes.
I suspect that at least a couple of the bootstrapper posters who regularly write comments denigrating left-leaning social policies (i.e. those that support the common good) are originally from very poor developing countries. So of course they're not going to flinch at the growing inequality in the US, because they probably come from far worse, and that's what they know and accept. Perhaps they come from countries where a good chunk of the populations live in abject poverty, where the poorest of the poor are considered "untouchables," and where even educated people believe that the extreme gaps between wealthy and poor are divinely ordained and good.
BTW, over in the General US forums, there is currently a thread identifying some of the poorest places in the US and the conditions in which their residents live. I suggest you read through that thread. Mind you, I'm guessing you'll simply shrug at the end of it.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 12-28-2014 at 08:01 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
