Millennials the new poor in the USA, while seniors are the new rich - Is there any hope for those 18-34? (bankrupt, student loan)
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So I guess that means I'm out of touch with the reality a lot of millennials are facing? Or does it mean I'm in touch with people who are problem solvers and don't let obstacles get in their way? Or both, I guess. But I don't know anyone in their 20's who expects to be able to buy a house at that age. That's always been a long-term goal for anyone in any generation. Is part of the problem unrealistic expectations? Where did people get the idea you can buy a house in the first decade after graduating university?
I don't know...but you're preaching to the wrong person. I don't expect to be able to afford anything beyond basic necessities and the very occasional luxury(Cheap hooker and a bottle of Jameson).
Life is a series of obstacles and I do what I can to jump or duck those hurdles. I like to read and prefer to minimize watching the boob tube. I try not to compare myself to others or blame others for my own shortcomings. I am basing this from my own observations, but there is a general disdain for the younger generation and it's always been the case. Some people can and have evolved above that, but it is still evident.
A house is a big commitment, not sure if I will ever be ready for something like that even if I had the financial resources. I am already doing better than both of my parents. To be fair, they never set the bar that high to begin with. I don't know what other "millennials" are facing, and everyone of a certain age group is limited to a range of their own realities. Even people in the same age group have a wide variety of their own realities that they face.
I think this is missing the point, which wasn't saying that the 18-34 age group should be the wealthiest age group, but just that they are having a much harder time getting off their feet than someone who was 18-34 years old in the 1970's would have.
Decades ago, before NAFTA and so many other structural changes in the economy, the average Joe (or heck, the below average Joe), could finish high school (or maybe not even finish), and land a unionized blue collar job that would buy him a nice ranch house on a 3 acre plot of land. And his wife would have the choice of staying home as a homemaker if she didn't want to work, and they still would have a nice middle class lifestyle. That's not the world of 2015.
Mostly, I agree. But there ARE a great many 'below-average joes', who still DO make plenty of money, without college educations. The following story, for me, illustrated an entire CLASS of people - in ultra-competitive New York State - who somehow manage luxurious livestyles, without education, without exceptional character traits, and even without hot bodies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_T..._Parkway_crash I started researching these people, and they're apparently not that rare.
And do you remember Super Nanny? Every week, she went to the oddly-luxurious homes of people I'd personally describe as SUBHUMAN, to untangle the messes they'd made in child-rearing. Bitsi, Izzi, Babette, and I all kept saying, "Where do THOSE people get the money for brand-new houses? Where do they get the money for all that tacky new furniture? Where do THOSE creatures get the money for whelping-out all those babies?" (about their loathsome offspring, we said things like "If I'd done that, my Mama would have knocked me across the room so hard, I'd have stuck to the wall.")
The military, law enforcement, and construction, still provide good livings for people who are ill-educated, and possibly not all that bright.
Yes, America has already gone to Hell in a handbasket. And things will only get worse. And yes: this is the result of deliberate strategy by various greedy/grabby groups. But there still ARE ways of doing well, even if you AREN'T a Physician, an Attorney, or an MBA.
It doesn't help when you post on forums, and those 100K guys call you a sucker, and everyone's talking about STEM is the only way to go in college. The norm is the people starting out at 35 or 40K, but you're right--that's not what the media portray
Regardless of the stories you hear, most STEM grads aren't starting out much higher than that. I graduated at the bottom of the recession making less than 50k in a high COL area with my STEM degree. This was after working my butt off applying to literally hundreds and hundreds of job openings. This tends to be the norm. Colleges spew nonsense about starting salaries for new grad engineers being over 60k. That's completely false for all but a very few grads.
"Shame on me for wanting them 'out of my way?'" You'd have more weight if you didn't pull the "they're here first" line because that don't work in jobs. They are over-qualified to be a Walmart greater. Walmart goes after them because they can be paid low and not need to pay for health benefits because many are medicare aged. I know, I see it all the time in Walmart, even super markets. The problem is many are inept at that. I can easily do better but I hardly ever was given the chance. How can I perform without the chance?
Sorry but I'm not even going to respond to anything other than this last part (oh, and your idea of "thinning the herd" - more on that in a minute).
Tell the truth - when was the last time you applied for a job as a Walmart greeter or fast food worker? Are you willing to work those jobs for that pay? If so, then OK, you win. But if you haven't actually applied for those positions recently, you can't say that anyone else is taking your job away from you. Oh, and as for being "overqualified" to work in fast food or retail - do you honestly think these elderly people WANT to work in such positions, or do you think it's more a case of desperation or hard times themselves? Who could begrudge them that necessary income - that they are willing to WORK for? My gosh.
Now let's talk about what you mean by "thinning the herd." Please expound.
A lot of generalizing about posters who actually aren't boomers. I'm a Gen X-er. All I'm saying is that there are cyclical downturns; the Boomers had a terrible job market and a bad economy to deal with when they graduated. We all did. I guess I must know an exceptional bunch of millennials, because they're all doing well. Most are self-employed, a few are employed by others, and have good benefits. One took an office job because that's all she could get, but she got some training to build on her skills, and moved up to a much better-paying job.
So I guess that means I'm out of touch with the reality a lot of millennials are facing? Or does it mean I'm in touch with people who are problem solvers and don't let obstacles get in their way? Or both, I guess. But I don't know anyone in their 20's who expects to be able to buy a house at that age. That's always been a long-term goal for anyone in any generation. Is part of the problem unrealistic expectations? Where did people get the idea you can buy a house in the first decade after graduating university?
I am sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a SINGLE Millennial that I know who is seriously struggling. Without exception, every single one I know (and that's quite a few now that I think of it) are either in college (most are not though) or working - in professional or highly skilled positions. I know quite a few because of the age of my kids and the ages of my friends' kids. I don't know a single one who is living at home, now that I think of it. Not a single one that isn't either renting a nice home, or buying one. In fact, several of the Millennials I know live in houses that are MUCH nicer than mine (though I doubt seriously that theirs is going to be paid off in a few years like mine is). And they all have at least one car in the household and some of them have much nicer vehicles than mine too, now that I think of it.
The least professional one I know is actually my youngest, most wild haired child, who is 27 and living the life of Reilly down in Austin as a bartender in a swanky club. His idea, not mine. But even he is paying all his own bills, making his own way, and seems to be very happy and having the time of his life. With zero debt. Personally I wish he'd do something different but I've offered and he's refused and now he's not a kid anymore so there you have it.
I think the bold is a problem. We always hear about the extraordinary stories of say a Zuckerberg exiting college with Facebook or those who exit school with one of those 100K shale oil jobs or even the median wage for college graduates is 60K and not you exit school with a 35K job and if you are lucky, 45K or 100K if you hit the bullseye.
If it makes you feel any better, before I quit working a couple of years ago due to the incessant needs of two very elderly and very sick inlaws, I had been working for 25 years and was making $50k a year as a bank manager. Now - I had great benefits and banking hours, and the commute was literally five minutes so it was worth the sacrifice to me -and my husband's income is great so the pay cut didn't kill me, but prior to that I had made considerably more in real estate. I just needed something with more regular in hours at that particular time in my life.
I was making the same amount as younger, recent college grads. The difference between them and me was that I was not planning to move upward -frankly I didn't want more responsibility or longer hours (been there, done that) but they on the other hand had relatively easy access to much better jobs within the banking world over the long haul.
These $50k a year jobs were in mid size cities and smaller towns in Texas, within an hour or two of major metro areas. Not hard to get, not hard to keep. Good room for advancement. Not very complicated careers in comfortable offices, with great benefits packages.
Common as dirt, actually, around here anyway.
Oh, and by the way - remember I said I was working in real estate before then? I was making a great living doing that (and was single for part of that time, so no additional income), and that particular field doesn't even require a college degree.
I am sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a SINGLE Millennial that I know who is seriously struggling. Without exception, every single one I know (and that's quite a few now that I think of it) are either in college (most are not though) or working - in professional or highly skilled positions. I know quite a few because of the age of my kids and the ages of my friends' kids. I don't know a single one who is living at home, now that I think of it. Not a single one that isn't either renting a nice home, or buying one. In fact, several of the Millennials I know live in houses that are MUCH nicer than mine (though I doubt seriously that theirs is going to be paid off in a few years like mine is). And they all have at least one car in the household and some of them have much nicer vehicles than mine too, now that I think of it.
The least professional one I know is actually my youngest, most wild haired child, who is 27 and living the life of Reilly down in Austin as a bartender in a swanky club. His idea, not mine. But even he is paying all his own bills, making his own way, and seems to be very happy and having the time of his life. With zero debt. Personally I wish he'd do something different but I've offered and he's refused and now he's not a kid anymore so there you have it.
I know quite a few who flunked out of college and haven't grown up enough yet to start making something of their lives. I can also think of a few who had their 4 or 5 years after flunking out and have re-engaged with life.
The movie Wayne's World captured that behavior with Gen Xers. There were plenty of boomers I grew up with who did the same thing. In my experience entering the labor force in 1981, nothing the millennials are experiencing is new. I don't think the sense of entitlement is any different from late-boomers. The late-boomers just didn't have an internet to use to whine about their awful plight in life.
I am already doing better than both of my parents. To be fair, they never set the bar that high to begin with. .
This is something to celebrate! And the message I'm getting from some of these posts is that it's about where you set the bar. There's a guy on a city forum posting that he got a job offer in that city, but he's not sure if he wants to take it. He says he wants to be able to rent a 3-br/2-ba. house for $1500 without having a long commute. This is a single guy early in his career. Why would a single guy need a 3-br. house? Where does that mindset come from? Everyone's telling him he needs to be more realistic.
But it sounds like you're pretty grounded, and you're doing well for yourself, all things considered. It looks like the US is moving toward a society like Europe, where most people rent, because buying is beyond reach. But the difference between the US rental market and Europe is that rents remain stable over there. In the hotter markets in the US, people get pushed out of their rentals every few years, and have to either keep downsizing, or move farther away and commute farther to work. Renting can be a very insecure existence.
And yes, I've seen the disdain for millennials, mainly on this website on various forums, and I don't get it. Don't those people have millennial kids or grandkids themselves?
I know quite a few who flunked out of college and haven't grown up enough yet to start making something of their lives. I can also think of a few who had their 4 or 5 years after flunking out and have re-engaged with life.
The movie Wayne's World captured that behavior with Gen Xers. There were plenty of boomers I grew up with who did the same thing. In my experience entering the labor force in 1981, nothing the millennials are experiencing is new. I don't think the sense of entitlement is any different from late-boomers. The late-boomers just didn't have an internet to use to whine about their awful plight in life.
Interesting. I'm a late Boomer (born in 1962). It honestly didn't occur to me to whine when I was trying to get my life started in the 1980s. And I honestly don't recall anyone I knew whining either. It just wasn't a part of the societal fabric I guess within my middle class, Southern mid size town upbringing or group of peers.
My brother, who is ten years younger than me, is a true Gen Xer - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I knew a lot of his friends over the years as well. They are a different breed than the Boomers overall, though of course there are exceptions to every rule. But even with their ongoing angst and Kurt Cobain fandom, they have managed to do fine.
My gosh, folks, it just TAKES AWHILE -ten or fifteen years, maybe even longer if you make a few missteps along the way - to get your financial feet under you. My dad, a Silent Generationer, told me one time that he didn't even start saving for retirement till he was in his l40s - he just didn't have the expendable income, and we were definitely middle class. My parents are well off now but sheeze, they're in their seventies. They have worked hard, and they both inherited smallish estates from their parents, as they will probably leave me and as I will probably leave my kids.
I didn't even have a 401K or IRA till I was in my forties - that's how the conversation came up with my dad. I was feeling like an underachiever and a failure. But once I got the ball rolling, and began making consistently good personal and professional decisions, things started really looking up.
And yes, I've seen the disdain for millennials, mainly on this website on various forums, and I don't get it. Don't those people have millennial kids or grandkids themselves?
Yes, and I love them. I don't have disdain for Millennials in general - just the whiny ones, and the ones who think I have a moral obligation to subsidize their lifestyles. In fact, I have disdain for any adult of any age who thinks that's fundamentally my obligation.
My disdain knows no generational limits or barriers when it comes to that victim mentality.
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How can I perform without the chance?
