Millennials the new poor in the USA, while seniors are the new rich - Is there any hope for those 18-34? (payments, fund)
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You have finally written something I agree with. As long as the cards are paid off immediately, what's the problem? And yes, I think the experience is more than worth it. Travel is one of the things that makes life worth living. Travel isn't a throwaway expense -- it's investing in yourself.
I am hoping that you intentionally "misunderstood" my post, because if not, then I have my doubts about the effectiveness of your degree from that prestigious university. If you really misunderstood the meaning of my post, maybe you should demand a refund!
I didn't mean "put travel expenses on a credit card and immediately pay it off" - surely you know that. I was talking about going into long term debt (most student loans fall into that category and that was the comparison in case you missed it) for travel "experiences."
I'm a big believer in embarking on travel adventures near and far if one can afford to do so. My husband and I like to alternate our vacations and generally go overseas every third year but take several vacations in the US each year. We're trying to decide between China and Scotland for the next big one. I want to walk a portion of the Pennine Trail so I'm really lobbying for flying into Manchester, driving up to Northumbria and then hiking into Scotland...I fell in love with England when we last visited in 2013. My husband wants to take me to China - he lived there for nine months and thinks I would really like it, but I'd rather go to Scotland. He lived there also for about a year and will make a great travel agent!
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My wife and I do this twice each year. (One of the reasons I ditched the professional world for my trade is that vacation time is much easier to finagle.) This is why I busted my butt in my youth for that sheepskin -- so I wouldn't have to worry about vacations, retirement, bills, and similar.
I understand. We're self employed as well, and love the freedom (and the income that makes much of that freedom so attainable). However, neither of us have a sheepskin from an expensive university, or the debt or expense associated with it. We've managed very well without it.
I'm not criticizing your choice - just pointing out that there are other lifestyles and career choices which provide very well for vacations, retirement, bills, etc.
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I find it amusing that so many people verbally trash good colleges as a waste of money. Most of the people I know who attended such schools enjoy a better quality of life. It's more than just an investment, it's an insurance policy against a boring life.
I haven't verbally trashed ANY college or said that any college was a waste of money.
However, my husband and I have led anything BUT boring lives - and the only colleges we attended were community colleges. We've worked and/or lived in over 25 countries. That alone pretty much assures that one doesn't have a boring life.
But each person's definition of "boring," or "fulfilling," or "exciting," or "meaningful," will differ. What you consider to be boring isn't the standard everyone follows. For instance, though we travel a lot, we choose to live in a mid size town rather than a big metro area. Some people would consider living here to be boring. WE LOVE IT and though we can literally live anywhere with easy access to an airport, we chose to live here because we are passionate about this area and love love love living here.
I have a brother who lives in a tiny town in Ohio. I personally can't imagine living there, but he loves it. He derives great satisfaction from his orchard which he planted a few years ago, and sends me pictures of it, talks about it, gives me updates, discusses the soil, insecticides, etc. He leads a pretty simple life overall, and he rarely travels, but he LIKES it that way. He loves his land, the river that cuts through it, fishing, hiking, etc. His life might be boring to you or to me, but he is very fulfilled personally by it.
It seems like the media is trying to do this because the fact is that the vast majority can't attend a good college. Demand far exceeds supply. They are either too expensive, or you have to be smart enough to get in and graduate. I think they're just trying to keep people satisfied by pretending that lesser colleges or even community college is equivalent.
The gap between rich and poor is scary and it is getting bigger. The available educational opportunities are just one other thing that is vastly different, and not probably going to get any better.
I haven't seen much of this in the media -- unless you mean bloggers. A big swath of bloggers hate college. They're dismissed as "liberal indoctrination centers."
But you have hit the bulls-eye about available educational opportunities. As a nation we have gone from advising students to shoot for the moon (and attend the best school possible) to "take the cheap route." America simply does not value education like it once did. If we did value education, we would do something about making it more accessible.
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I haven't verbally trashed ANY college or said that any college was a waste of money.
it.
You have posted that your husband thinks he's going to be stuck working until he's 75 and that you wish you were able to take annual expensive foreign vacations. And then you post that everything is financially hunky-dory. Which is it?
And now you claim you haven't "verbally trashed" any college, when you have spent the last ten pages of thread basically sneering at high tuition costs.
The crux of this thread is that millennials who want to take the same path that I did are stuck with a six-figure millstone around their neck. Wanting to take the same path that I did isn't the problem. In fact, that's what we should be encouraging people to do if they are able. The problem is the six-figure millstone. Scholarship trusts only run so deep. This country used to publicly fund universities to a greater extent than we do today. (Eeek! Taxes!)
Boomers enjoyed a public school system that was the absolute envy of every nation on Earth. They also enjoyed low tuition if they were interested in attending college. (And since that was one way to avoid Vietnam, many stayed for years.) And as soon as they hit the workforce, their mantra shifted to "no new taxes."
How would anyone describe our public school system today? Envy of every nation on Earth? And how is college tuition compared to what the boomers enjoyed?
Millennials have every right to point to those two items and ask older generations, "WTF?"
You have posted that your husband thinks he's going to be stuck working until he's 75 and that you wish you were able to take annual expensive foreign vacations. And then you post that everything is financially hunky-dory. Which is it?
What?
Sure - at the rate of inflation and with the swings of the stock market, my husband is worried that he may have to work till he's in his seventies to make up for the loss of the dollar's value as well as the instability of the stock market.
And I haven't posted anywhere that I "wish we were able to take annual expensive foreign vacations." Come on, now you're just making things up. Where the heck do you GET this stuff? Oh wait...don't answer that.
We take numerous vacations each year and go on an international vacation (usually to Europe) about every third year. We could go every year if we chose, but like most Americans, even those in the upper 5 percent income bracket, we have a budget and some ongoing projects and goals. For instance, this past year we renovated our house rather than taking a big vacation (though we did go to England the year before - and I got a new and fabulous kitchen, so I wasn't too upset!).
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And now you claim you haven't "verbally trashed" any college, when you have spent the last ten pages of thread basically sneering at high tuition costs.
Please quote ONE INSTANCE of me "sneering at high tuition costs." I actually haven't even addressed the issue of high tuition costs. What I've stated repeatedly is that people should choose a college or trade school that they can afford and that offers a good ROI, and that people should strongly consider alternatives OTHER than big student loans.
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The crux of this thread is that millennials who want to take the same path that I did are stuck with a six-figure millstone around their neck.
No - that's YOUR "take away" point, but there are many other issues on this thread that are being discussed (for instance, younger people have generally ALWAYS generally been less affluent than older people who have worked and built a long term career, so what's the big surprise there?).
I stand by my position - the same career path and educational path for everyone isn't a basic human right. Who would even want it to be? Responsible adults look closely at the ROI of every financial decision they make, starting with college but not limited to it. There are SO MANY different paths to success that one size will never and should never fit everyone.
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Wanting to take the same path that I did isn't the problem. In fact, that's what we should be encouraging people to do if they are able.
You chose one of MANY paths to personal success (if I'm to believe you're personally successful, which I hope you are). That path isn't the BEST path for everyone, and frankly, I think it's arrogant to assume that it is. Not everyone wants or needs a degree from an expensive university in order to attain personal success.
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Millennials have every right to point to those two items and ask older generations, "WTF?"
Ahhh, the mantra of the young...we've all demanded answers from the older generation. It's human nature.
Oh look - here's some Boomers demanding answers from the generation before them!
The crux of this thread is that millennials who want to take the same path that I did are stuck with a six-figure millstone around their neck. Wanting to take the same path that I did isn't the problem. In fact, that's what we should be encouraging people to do if they are able. The problem is the six-figure millstone. Scholarship trusts only run so deep. This country used to publicly fund universities to a greater extent than we do today. (Eeek! Taxes!)
Boomers enjoyed a public school system that was the absolute envy of every nation on Earth. They also enjoyed low tuition if they were interested in attending college. (And since that was one way to avoid Vietnam, many stayed for years.) And as soon as they hit the workforce, their mantra shifted to "no new taxes."
My debt would be six figures if I were to do things today exactly the same way I did them. Even working my butt off to pay for college, I would STILL be about $100K in the hole. No idea if the university even offers the same work-study program that allowed me to graduate debt free. Probably not, as students today are seen as a resource to be squeezed.
Boomers enjoyed a public school system that was the absolute envy of every nation on Earth. They also enjoyed low tuition if they were interested in attending college. (And since that was one way to avoid Vietnam, many stayed for years.) And as soon as they hit the workforce, their mantra shifted to "no new taxes."
You're conflating generations there. "Read my lips: No New Taxes" was the mantra of Bush the Elder, running for prez after being Ronnie Rayguns' veep. It played big with the WWII vets who were never hot on paying for stuff. At that point in their lives, most boomers were not making enough to pay taxes anyway. It was their parents who had the lock on the economy and held all the wealth. Our big concern at that time was the impossibility of buying a home. The 15% mortgage interest rates (down from 18%) priced us completely out of the housing market. Inflation and recession had cut our real wages, which were substantially below current levels.
BTW, student draft deferrals during Viet Nam were limited to 4 years and men with above a 2.5 GPA. Women, of course, didn't have to deal with that. If your buddies dodged the draft it was because their draft board filled its quota before their name came up.
The Greatest Generation was happy to pick up the school taxes tab when their Boomer children were attending school. As soon as education became about "other people's kids" (and particularly minority students), they wrote off the public education system.
The Boomers never met a tax they liked, as soon as the disco party was over and the 1980s began.
The Greatest Generation was happy to pick up the school taxes tab when their Boomer children were attending school. As soon as education became about "other people's kids" (and particularly minority students), they wrote off the public education system.
The Boomers never met a tax they liked, as soon as the disco party was over and the 1980s began.
AGAIN, please stop lumping decades of boomers together...some of us were still in high school when the 80's began and about to face adulthood in a bad economy. We have NOTHING in common with older boomers. And by the way, nobody paid my way or my husband's. We got scholarships and he joined the military. Our parents lovingly showed us an open door at 17 & 18. None of this "revolving door" stuff that the millennials use.
My debt would be six figures if I were to do things today exactly the same way I did them. Even working my butt off to pay for college, I would STILL be about $100K in the hole. No idea if the university even offers the same work-study program that allowed me to graduate debt free. Probably not, as students today are seen as a resource to be squeezed.
Not if you are as smart and had received that first-rate education that you tell everyone about. You would have been one of the 70% of the Harvard students who are receiving scholarship money.
But my post was not about you. My post was counter argument to the myth is that is being spread that all these students are graduating with six-figure debt.
That, and the misleading premise that draft-dodgers who stayed in stayed in college to avoid Vietnam are the demographic who are saying No New Taxes.
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