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Old 02-05-2015, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,869 posts, read 16,271,410 times
Reputation: 29229

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
... As far as sister helping with parents, it is nice to know that mom and dad had a child that would take on that kind of work. She agreed to that on her own. Unless a contract can be shown that states that sister would be compensated for her help, then nothing else will be offered. She gets a better view in Heaven when she meets up with mom and dad.

Case settles and you all go on your merry way.
Wow, what a prince you are. Can you guarantee to Sis there is a heaven? I guess when Mom and Dad got old Sis should have run out of town to avoid responsibility.

Siblings who happen to have physical geographic proximity to parents often don't take on caregiving voluntarily. These parents were in assisted living, so when they need something, AL is going to call the child physically the closest. They don't care who it is; I've seen in-laws who aren't even blood relatives get the touch put on them for this job. AL and the parents just want someone on the spot, chop chop, when there's an issue. What's she going to do, not answer the phone?
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:18 PM
 
488 posts, read 817,140 times
Reputation: 448
IMHO, all that should matter is what the parents' wishes were - what is in the will or trust, as long as they were of sound mind and not under duress or undue influence while preparing those docs. Joe, the brother, is technically entitled to the $12k. Whether he is morally entitled to it is a matter of opinion. If all of the sibs are reasonable, they should be able to work out something that's fair to everyone, however, there will always be hurt feelings when they receive unequal portions of the inheritance for whatever reason.

To me, a small amount of $$ isn't worth destroying family bonds over. My family has had similar conflicts in the past. Sometimes it can help to present the facts to a neutral 3rd party who'd be able to see things objectively and help you all come to a mutually agreeable solution.

By the way, if you and your sis are not named as beneficiaries in the will or trust and Joe is the executor, he has no obligation to show you the documents, although I think that most people would share this info with the rest of the family, just to be transparent. If they used a will, the details would be made public during probate, but these details would remain private if a trust was used.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,871,810 times
Reputation: 11485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Bear View Post
I am NOT a lawyer, but if there is no will, then you, as next of kin, are likely to have a claim against the estate under the idea that, with no will, the estate is divided amongst the immediate family.

You are living in the 'carriage house' IIRC, non? You fear losing your home, or being forced to pay rent, non? What is that worth, aside from the money which you seem to not care about? One month's rent is going to cost you a LOT more than $1000 to kick it around with a lawyer. On top of that, the costs to settle the estate are borne by the estate, not by you.

So, if you know who the lawyer was that wrote the will (you say there is none, but there must be (how do things get into the Trust--it just doesn't "happen") , or my advice above applies about "immediate family"), or the lawyer is that wrote the Trust Document, have a sit down with them and figure out where you go from here. You are being taken advantage of and that is not right. Simply not having cash in hand is not a reason why you should give up hundreds of thousands of dollars in estate value just because your brother is being selfish. One way or the other, unless one of those documents specifically excludes you, you are entitled to a LOT more than you think (or perhaps want).

Don't be a wuss. Got get what is rightfully yours.
I don't plan on making a claim against the estate. And neither do any of my sibs. There's really nothing in it. All that's left in it is the house my mom bought when my dad died and it's not worth much. I figure, by the time my brother gets done paying all the back taxes, etc. he's not going to get much either. He plans on living in the house and not selling it. There's certainly no "hundreds of thousands..." involved.

He only wants to charge me $200 mo. 'rent' which is darn cheap, and I don't MIND paying that, but he keeps hitting me up for MORE money just because he has the money to pay for things and doesn't. I am actively looking for a home to buy so I can get the heck out of here. He wants me to sign a rental agreement but I'm not going to. I don't plan to be here long enough to bother and it's stupid. He can evict me if he likes.

Didn't say there is no lawyer. Nobody knows who the lawyer was who drew up the Trust, except my brother. I'm sure it's ON the Trust but brother won't be forthcoming with it. He did say that he "tried to contact them" but didn't have any luck?? I just don't know. I'd LOVE to have a "sit down" with them...if we just knew who the heck they are. This is why I want to find out from the County Recorder if it's on file. Just been running too crazy the last few days to inquire. Today, after work...
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,251,489 times
Reputation: 21890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
Wow, what a prince you are. Can you guarantee to Sis there is a heaven? I guess when Mom and Dad got old Sis should have run out of town to avoid responsibility.

Siblings who happen to have physical geographic proximity to parents often don't take on caregiving voluntarily. These parents were in assisted living, so when they need something, AL is going to call the child physically the closest. They don't care who it is; I've seen in-laws who aren't even blood relatives get the touch put on them for this job. AL and the parents just want someone on the spot, chop chop, when there's an issue. What's she going to do, not answer the phone?
Can you guarentee that there is no heaven? Sister did not have to help at all. That is a choice she made. Does not matter where someone lives.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,204 posts, read 19,095,617 times
Reputation: 38266
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Can you guarentee that there is no heaven? Sister did not have to help at all. That is a choice she made. Does not matter where someone lives.
Yes, it was a choice she made. OP and Joe can also choose to express some appreciation for that choice.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Midland, MI
510 posts, read 714,287 times
Reputation: 1138
OK, here's an update: no, Joe did not pay back the estate, he was counting on the inheritance in order to do so. And, no, I don't think it's worth messing up relationships over the money. Yes, sister did take on parents voluntarily but we still owe her for taking several years of her life to help them.

So, Joe has the money and is all mad at sister and I! Like we didn't hand the dough over fast enough.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
1,566 posts, read 3,275,335 times
Reputation: 3160
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhwtm View Post
OK, here's an update: no, Joe did not pay back the estate, he was counting on the inheritance in order to do so. And, no, I don't think it's worth messing up relationships over the money. Yes, sister did take on parents voluntarily but we still owe her for taking several years of her life to help them.

So, Joe has the money and is all mad at sister and I! Like we didn't hand the dough over fast enough.
That's what I was afraid of. His attorney got it wrong. My analysis below was correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakabedy View Post

(assigning an arbitrary cash value to the estate of $120K)

However, when I first read the OP, my interpretation was that brother was trying to make it all work out without actually coming up with $36K of new money to repay the estate. In that case, it sounded like he was taking the first $36K of the $120K estate and giving it to the sisters, then splitting three ways the remaining $84K. This would mean each sister got $46K ($28K + $18K) and brother got $28K. If THIS is what actually happened, then he shouldn't be entitled to a "share" of the $36K, because the estate didn't actually take in $36K. It also just isn't the right math to use, as the brother is still getting some sort of credit for a repayment he didn't actually make.

The simplest way to do this is to go back to the estate totaling $120K cash plus the $36K promissory note: a total of $156K in cash and notes. Divided three ways, it's $52K each. Brother, because the note is actually owed by him, should take the $36K note as part of his share, plus $16K in cash. The sisters each get $52K. This way, everyone gets 1/3 of the true estate, the sisters don't have to chase the brother for the debt, and the brother is fully repaying the debt out of his share -- correctly.
Looking on the bright side, you'll always know that you took the high road. In the event Joe tries to give either of you any stick in the future, you can explain to him how he got more than he was entitled to.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,499,452 times
Reputation: 101044
Grrrrr, no - this is what the OP said:

Quote:
As to the debt it is about $36K. So, he paid half of this to me and half to sister and all other funds were split 3 ways.
So apparently after the cash from the estate was divvied up, Joe paid $18k to each sister.

The estate (not including the $36k "note") was $120k. That was divided three ways - $40k each.

The note was $36k. This is also part of the estate. So this comes to $12k each. Joe OWED the other two siblings $24k ($12k each) but he paid them each $18k. He didn't actually "owe" $36k - he only owed 2/3 of that. So the siblings each owe him $6k.

it doesn't matter how Joe paid the note - out of his own pocket or from his other proceeds.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:22 PM
 
6,750 posts, read 5,450,446 times
Reputation: 17584
To the O.P.:
Sorry this had to work out the way it did, and you are right, the fighting over money isn't worth it. To bad bro doesn't listen to what really should have been, had the math been done right to begin with, and had he paid it back like he should have.

And, yes, O.P. It IS amazing what money will do to people.

The good book {a guide to good living if you don't believe in a diety} says "the love of money is the root of all evil. " I contend "MONEY ITSELF is the root of all evil" .

People get nasty over an estate, and I am glad my father set up a trust that spells it out exactly what is to go to whom, and I don't have to touch it, the trust's executor will have to disperse the estate.

LIFE ISN'T FAIR, and parents more often than not AREN'T fair with their children as they all have their favorites.

Such is life.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:18 PM
 
10,496 posts, read 5,557,553 times
Reputation: 10562
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Grrrrr, no - this is what the OP said:



So apparently after the cash from the estate was divvied up, Joe paid $18k to each sister.

The estate (not including the $36k "note") was $120k. That was divided three ways - $40k each.

The note was $36k. This is also part of the estate. So this comes to $12k each. Joe OWED the other two siblings $24k ($12k each) but he paid them each $18k. He didn't actually "owe" $36k - he only owed 2/3 of that. So the siblings each owe him $6k.

it doesn't matter how Joe paid the note - out of his own pocket or from his other proceeds.
Exactly. This new revelation doesn't change the conclusions that we came to on page 1.
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