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And part of the reason why wages are crappy is because indebted employees are more servile employees. They don't feel they can afford to bargain for better wages when there are debts to pay.
Unions have been pretty much killed, and we outsourced a lot of low skill work. Add in high unemployment and it's obvious why more jobs are just above minimum wage. No bargaining power and low labor demand.
Unions have been pretty much killed, and we outsourced a lot of low skill work. Add in high unemployment and it's obvious why more jobs are just above minimum wage. No bargaining power and low labor demand.
I have never understood why middle class people are so anti-union. Yes, the unions have done many stupid and selfish things. And so have their "management" counterparts and non union workers. But the unions provided the opportunity to gain a little leverage , where most individuals have none. We can all see where this is going: low wages, lack of job security, disappearing benefits, outsourcing- a shrinking middle class!
And the amazing part is that management and ownership and investment interests convinced us to do it to ourselves. We have no one to blame, but us.
I am personally not in a union, but my company has both. The premise many have floated is that if you are good at your job, you do not need unions. Yet, where I work, union members still have pensions and wage increases and decent medical. Some of those union contracts even prevented outsourcing. The non union workers with degrees have frozen pensions, frozen wage increases and rising medical costs. The executives gave up nothing.
The venture capitalists are rolling in the windfall of our stupidity and politicians like, Scott Walker, liken blue collar union workers to ISIS while their constituents cheer them on. Whistling past the graveyard!
Oh, the horror! The world will end if we start saving (sarc)!
Actually, what would happen is what has already happened to some degree. The economy has adjusted. The savings rate has already gone up a bit since its ultra low rate of 1% or 2% in 2005....it actually hit nearly 6.5% during the recession. It's around 5.5% now. If we gradually increase our savings (which would the most likely scenario...it's not going to skyrocket to 15% overnight, after all), the economy will gradually adjust and it will also be more stable and harder to knock down with every little thing that happens.
Isn't what we really want, balance? I like that the savings rate has gone up (deleveraging). Still, from my perspective the best of both worlds is people have enough to both save and spend. If that is not possible, I still want other people to consume, while I reap the benefits of investing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Actually, people spending every nickel they earn (and then borrowing some more) is what brought our economy down in 2008. We still haven't fully recovered.
That is a bit of an oversimplification. What brought our economy down was lending to people who could not pay the bill and using inflated assets to justify the practice, while passing on the risk to the unwary.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Actually, I have found investing to be quite rewarding . But I know what you're saying. Our economy promotes consumerism. Consumerism has actually made our economy unstable. I think it also leaves people trapped in crappy jobs because of all the debts they have to pay. It's hard to pin a number on it...but I wouldn't be surprised if all the debt people carry is a drag on productivity.
And you think this is a good thing and want more of it????
Domestic consumption is the only thing that keeps small business alive in the US. And to steal a slogan, it is the heartbeat of America. It is not foreigners eating at Applebees or going to the theater or buying craft brewed beer.
A stable family unit actually could be helpful to weather the storm. But feminism has destroyed marriage in the US and most other western countries where divorce rates are in the 50+% range. Hell parts of europe its as high as 70%. All the career successful men I know that divorced (at least half) have to pay for lifetime alimony and child support that never seems to get to the children its supposed to help. And if they don't pay they could be sent to prison, talk about slavery. I know men who had professional licenses yanked for not being able to pay child support and whom became homeless. While I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule many women want the career freedom of men while still being supported by a man. And women themselves do initiate divorce 80% of the time.
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Choosing a mate for the wrong reason and not meeting them halfway or remaining loyal to your vows is what destroys marriage. That is a two way street. I am sure you can still find a weak subservient woman to fulfill your dreams, if you look hard enough. Or one that will work, while the kids are in day care. take your pick. But, don't post sh1t like this and then claim, "you respect woman".
The very idea that these men had a "professional license", but "couldn't pay child support" is ludicrous. And them claiming, "the kid's never got the money" is nothing but hollow rationalization, for not meeting one's responsibility.
The same people get married and divorced repeated leading to that 50% number. Who files the papers is irrelevant. A woman who divorced her husband for abuse or sleeping with the nanny is hardly to blame. Those guys who whine about how they were screwed are leaving out their role in the whole clusterfook. I know a bunch of them personally, most of them did it to themselves and do not want to take any responsibility.
A huge number of people who think this way, are in for a horrible wake up call. For many, once they figure out they have screwed the pooch, there will be no fixing it. I know some very smart guys who played this game and lived to regret not having a real family. The millennials aren't the first to try living like Peter Pan. And having children of your own in your 40s is a dice roll. We'll see how it works out. At some point you realize that the pursuit of wealth and material things only goes so far. It is impossible to comprehend until you have children of your own.
I have no problem with people sharing living expenses to keep their heads above water financially. it is a good idea. But, if this is truly how millennials perceive things, then there is not going to be other generations to keep the economy afloat. To the immigrants go the spoils!
I have never understood why middle class people are so anti-union. Yes, the unions have done many stupid and selfish things. And so have their "management" counterparts and non union workers. But the unions provided the opportunity to gain a little leverage , where most individuals have none. We can all see where this is going: low wages, lack of job security, disappearing benefits, outsourcing- a shrinking middle class!
And the amazing part is that management and ownership and investment interests convinced us to do it to ourselves. We have no one to blame, but us.
I am personally not in a union, but my company has both. The premise many have floated is that if you are good at your job, you do not need unions. Yet, where I work, union members still have pensions and wage increases and decent medical. Some of those union contracts even prevented outsourcing. The non union workers with degrees have frozen pensions, frozen wage increases and rising medical costs. The executives gave up nothing.
The venture capitalists are rolling in the windfall of our stupidity and politicians like, Scott Walker, liken blue collar union workers to ISIS while their constituents cheer them on. Whistling past the graveyard!
It's funny that you say that jobs are gone low wage or no benefits. Just a few pages back, people were cheering as if the economy is booming. The left to this day never understood many things. Part of me want to let the lefties keep their self righteousness and never understand it. It doesn't bother me.
Isn't what we really want, balance? I like that the savings rate has gone up (deleveraging). Still, from my perspective the best of both worlds is people have enough to both save and spend. If that is not possible, I still want other people to consume, while I reap the benefits of investing.
That is a bit of an oversimplification. What brought our economy down was lending to people who could not pay the bill and using inflated assets to justify the practice, while passing on the risk to the unwary.
.
Domestic consumption is the only thing that keeps small business alive in the US. And to steal a slogan, it is the heartbeat of America. It is not foreigners eating at Applebees or going to the theater or buying craft brewed beer.
The best situation for yourself is to have other people fly out there stupid cars and jewelry in front of you while you take the opportunity to save and invest.
Companies around the country are laying off people left and right. New jobs that are created are in Lopane service sector. The days when you could work for one company for 30 years and retire on the patients are gone. Now you need to go back to school several times to get the skills for a career. Profession technology change constantly. You may have to return to school to get another degree or certificate or an even lower level of degree just to get the skills for a job. there's no such thing as going to college and then working and they're retiring. It is lifelong learning now. You could be laid off in your 30s 40s 50s and 60s. And if you don't have enough saved, you will not fare well.
Delay your gratification and focus on accumulating wealth.
Move to a place with a reasonable cost of living and access to jobs.
Do not have a family. You can be laid off at any time and you may have trouble looking for a job. You may not even have the money to get the educational training to potentially get a new job. Your family will suffer and will struggle. You need to cut down your expenses and cost. You need to right size yourself. You need to streamline your life. You need to increase the efficiency of life. You need to embrace minimalism.
Yes singles pay A disproportionately amount of tax. But it's much easier, simpler, then having a family and being a member of a dying class. You will have disposable income. You will have the peace of mind.
Just don't create a family. The government cannot use violence to force you to form a family. Just don't do it.
If no one has kids, then there will be no future generation to pay for your social benefits when you're old.
Not really. It's the same as someone running up their debt so they can increase consumption. Of course their personal "economy" will be expanding, but the problem is that it is based on debt . There is nothing esoteric about this. On average, if a person (or country) goes into debt in order to invest in production (infrastructure and equipment, R&D, education, etc) then it will pay dividends in the future. If they go into debt merely to correct for their trade imbalance (for an individual this is the gap between what they earn and spend), then everything will be great... until the credit maxes out and it all comes crashing down.
This is what has happened in the US and to most developed countries to a lesser degree. This isn't "free trade". This the rich and powerful using globalization to drain capital from developed countries so they can get much richer than they could otherwise.
I have been trying to avoid pointing out that a running theme in your posts involves some sort of shadow conspiracy. But, it is hard to overlook. Nobody "rich or powerful" needs to manipulate emerging markets to want a better way of life, and leverage their advantages to become competitive, thus attaining their piece of the pie. It is a natural progression. And the fact that smart people see opportunity in this growth and invest wisely is simply smart economics on their part.
Since the US has only a fraction of the worlds population, a shrinking demographic base and most of the worlds wealth we have no choice but to participate in global growth or turn inward and die. I do not understand why so many people are afraid we cannot compete unless we have all the advantages on our side, like we have for the past century.
I have a feeling you either did not read the article or had your mind made up already. The article addresses your concerns and deflates the premise with a data driven analysis.
Our debt is a function of domestic spending, as much as anything else, not the trade imbalance. Entitlements and defense spending play the biggest role and are almost exclusively domestic. We either pare them back substantially or raise revenues to pay the bill. There is no other solution and the sooner we accept that, the sooner we take action to fix the problem.
I'm a 26 year old millenial and I agree with everything you say. When I realize how much I save by not having a family and being able to live with roommates its crazy.
Jobs have become in many case temporary and contracted out. Salaries have plunged permanently due to globalization and debt levels from education have skyrocketed. Now people are forced to live with others just to survive.
A stable family unit actually could be helpful to weather the storm. But feminism has destroyed marriage in the US and most other western countries where divorce rates are in the 50+% range. Hell parts of europe its as high as 70%. All the career successful men I know that divorced (at least half) have to pay for lifetime alimony and child support that never seems to get to the children its supposed to help. And if they don't pay they could be sent to prison, talk about slavery. I know men who had professional licenses yanked for not being able to pay child support and whom became homeless. While I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule many women want the career freedom of men while still being supported by a man. And women themselves do initiate divorce 80% of the time.
The smart people of my generation have many nice female friends and others as friends with benefits or girlfriends and use birth control religiously. They respect women like men, but don't sign the government marriage papers which can sign their life away and give angry women the option to clean them out. Its not all bad. Living all over the country (or world), sleeping with numerous hot women and experiencing life to its fullest is in many ways more liberating than the alternative. Being tied to a mortgage payment you don't want, married to a controlling person you no longer like and desperately trying to please them lest you lose half your stuff and a third of your paycheck for the next 20 years isn't all its cracked up to be
Well sad. I think this is also the awakening of a generation that has in large numbers realized just how obsessed people have been with creating a family in the last 200 years in this country and just how idiotic that is when you put that in the context of the quality-of-life and achieving your life goals. Just how bad people have been treated with the unrewarding task of creating a family. And you know the one thing that's been audios have realized. You don't have to do it. It's that simple.
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. But I know what you're saying. Our economy promotes consumerism. Consumerism has actually made our economy unstable. I think it also leaves people trapped in crappy jobs because of all the debts they have to pay. It's hard to pin a number on it...but I wouldn't be surprised if all the debt people carry is a drag on productivity. 
