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Old 06-09-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,645 posts, read 24,652,162 times
Reputation: 28263

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
If there ever actually were any, you two ran out of sensible things to say a long time ago. No facts, no history, no nothing. Over twenty years, the effects of NAFTA have been small but positive. Manufacturing employment has been falling everywhere since the mid-1990's. US industrial production has returned to pre-Great Recession all-time high levels. We and China are by far the world's two largest manufacturing economies. About 24% of US manufactures are produced for export. To be fully informed, read the New York Times. Not stupid stuff from some Tea Party blog.
US lost a greater share of manufacturing employment, as a percentage of employment, than other developed nations. Instead of improving our ability to compete, US threw it's domestic manufacturing base away like last week's left overs. US has about 20% fewer manufacturing businesses, compared to 15 years ago. You know... When they were talking about the wonderful things NAFTA would never turn out to do

The US has lost is former economy of scale advantage on top of it, leaving little room for growth. Ever see what Detroit looks like? They used to make many things there, I'm told.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,547,618 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
US lost a greater share of manufacturing employment, as a percentage of employment, than other developed nations.
This is the more relevant stat:



Like most of MB's assertions, the "opinion" that the US is a manufacturing power house is easily disproved.

Actually this graph is most relevant, since it doesn't really matter if manufacture goods for export or something else, so long as we have something to sell.


Last edited by rruff; 06-09-2015 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:42 PM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,320,532 times
Reputation: 7658
barbara doesn't want to see that stuff!!

quick, hide it!

barbara scared of facts
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:45 PM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,320,532 times
Reputation: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
If there ever actually were any, you two ran out of sensible things to say a long time ago. No facts, no history, no nothing. Over twenty years, the effects of NAFTA have been small but positive. Manufacturing employment has been falling everywhere since the mid-1990's. US industrial production has returned to pre-Great Recession all-time high levels. We and China are by far the world's two largest manufacturing economies. About 24% of US manufactures are produced for export. To be fully informed, read the New York Times. Not stupid stuff from some Tea Party blog.
Wow, a whole paragraph of...nothing.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,073,543 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I am a machinist. I could be working 80 hours a week right now. I have job offers all the time, but work is very unstable.

The quality of crap sucks because workers are poorly trained, poorly paid and the education system is a mess. Companies have also failed to reinvest properly, as margins tightened. We also have an influx of poorly educated illegal immigrants. These people end up working in the manufacturing sector, and the quality is evident.
Lack of proper training isn't NAFTA's fault but America's fault for not properly focusing it's resources to better serve it's citizens.

Quote:
You can slice it and dice it as you wish. The more people a job requires, the more it makes sense to outsource to low wage countries. American workers don't produce quality work for the low wages offered today. The quality inspectors at Ford that I have talked to all have the same opinion as I. The Institute of Supply Chain Management repeatedly cites growing concern with America's lack of quality skilled labor. Cycle times are rising, and that's money down the drain. America is being squeezed out of the market by stiff foreign competition.
This has happened many times in the last two centuries. Technological innovation can be a cruel mistress.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:49 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,073,543 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
If there ever actually were any, you two ran out of sensible things to say a long time ago. No facts, no history, no nothing. Over twenty years, the effects of NAFTA have been small but positive. Manufacturing employment has been falling everywhere since the mid-1990's. US industrial production has returned to pre-Great Recession all-time high levels. We and China are by far the world's two largest manufacturing economies. About 24% of US manufactures are produced for export. To be fully informed, read the New York Times. Not stupid stuff from some Tea Party blog.
Don't forget ze germans! Very industrious folks.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:57 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,073,543 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
US lost a greater share of manufacturing employment, as a percentage of employment, than other developed nations. Instead of improving our ability to compete, US threw it's domestic manufacturing base away like last week's left overs. US has about 20% fewer manufacturing businesses, compared to 15 years ago. You know... When they were talking about the wonderful things NAFTA would never turn out to do

The US has lost is former economy of scale advantage on top of it, leaving little room for growth. Ever see what Detroit looks like? They used to make many things there, I'm told.
I'm glad you brought up Detroit as it serves as a good example to what Barbara Major is talking about.

Despite the Detroit metro being 14th in population, it's 5th in exports. It produces more cars than ever in the metro, but technology is a cruel mistress as I said earlier.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:01 PM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,320,532 times
Reputation: 7658
Wonder if this is coming straight out of their text books? Sad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqiiz9R5ys
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:02 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,642,304 times
Reputation: 1091
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Like most of MB's assertions, the "opinion" that the US is a manufacturing power house is easily disproved.
Be sure to let us know when the total reaches one. By the way, manufacturing as a percent of GDP is a meaningless concept in the current context. Have you no clue at all as to how numbers work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Actually this graph is most relevant, since it doesn't really matter if manufacture goods for export or something else, so long as we have something to sell.
Buy a vowel. You and trade balances just don't mix. If you wanted a relevant graph though, this would be one. These are data for the US, but the same sort of thing has happened everywhere. It's a geographically fractal phenomenon...

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Old 06-09-2015, 04:04 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,642,304 times
Reputation: 1091
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
barbara doesn't want to see that stuff!! quick, hide it! barbara scared of facts
Babble, babble, babble. Barbara knows. You do not.
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