How do businesses keep getting away with this? (Sears, free market, sell)

[Slowpoke_TX]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

So get off my lawn then.

But in all seriousness, I don't have time to be on your lawn. I work 70 hours per week, earning money for myself and my employer.

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

So I take it the business you're working for now actually pays its employees a living wage and none of them are being forced out so they can be replaced with a minimum wage workers?

What wage level would you label a "living wage?" Nevermind, that really doesn't matter. The work we do cannot be done by minimum wage workers. We all know what our labor is worth, and we would quit and go to the competition if this company reduced our wages to below market.

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

You are echoing me when you say that people don't do business with businesses that offer poor customer service and eventually those businesses fail. What I am telling you is why those businesses have poor customer service and why they fail.

Poor customer service is the result of mismanagement. Customer service, or lack thereof, cannot be blamed on any external force.

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

The point is, we all pay when those businesses screw up and/or fail. You subsidize Sprint's stupid employee mistakes when you pay for your high cell phone service

Not anymore! I dropped Sprint years ago.

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

we all pay when the feds, as you say, bail out a business.

You finally got one right!

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

The difference between us is you don't care about paying and you certainly don't seem to care about the employees of those businesses and I do.

I care about them as much as I care about any and every other human being. Those people are grown adult men and women, free to make their own choices. Nobody is forced to work at a particular company in America. If a person doesn't like the compensation package at a particular employer, they have the right, ability, and obligation to seek other employment. Unless I hold stock in a particular company, I have no right to influence the employer-employee relationships within any particular company, or every company.

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

And I say we can do better in this country.

If you want to make things better for American workers, advocate for measures that will reduce their employers' cost of doing business. If the cost of compliance goes down, capital will be freed up that can be used to provide increased compensation for existing employees, or to expand the business thus creating more job openings.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX

Those people are grown adult men and women, free to make their own choices. Nobody is forced to work at a particular company in America. If a person doesn't like the compensation package at a particular employer, they have the right, ability, and obligation to seek other employment. Unless I hold stock in a particular company, I have no right to influence the employer-employee relationships within any particular company, or every company.


advocate for measures that will reduce their employers' cost of doing business. If the cost of compliance goes down, capital will be freed up

Stooop! Your making too much sense and since they operate on an emotional level common sense and reality, they can't comprehend.

[latetotheparty]

I have a friend that repairs substations for the local electrical utility.... something that can be a very hazardous job.... and they rotate their shift workers with no rhyme or reason.... she will have days (7-3) for a few to several days in a row, then owls (11-7) for a few more to several days and then PMs (3-11) for a few more to several days.... with random days off....

she has worked this job for years and given her seniority with the utility, is making VERY good money with benefits the rest of us haven't seen for over 20 years.... she is just a couple years older than I am and is considering retiring in a couple of years, with a nice pension....

She says you just get used to the crazy shift work..... not sure I could.....

[Slowpoke_TX]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

they rotate their shift workers with no rhyme or reason

Employers who rotate shifts claim that scheduling is only fair if all employees work all shifts. I think that's a crock of BS, because it actually ensures that NOBODY will have a satisfactory schedule.

[petch751]

For all those dissatisfied with their employment and since you think you know everything about business what's stopping you? Start and run your own business and you can pay people what you want and schedule people the way you want.

[rodentraiser]

Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX

But in all seriousness, I don't have time to be on your lawn. I work 70 hours per week, earning money for myself and my employer.




What wage level would you label a "living wage?" Nevermind, that really doesn't matter. The work we do cannot be done by minimum wage workers. We all know what our labor is worth, and we would quit and go to the competition if this company reduced our wages to below market.

Well, I'm not going to get too much more into this, but as for what the living wage should be, I think I've already gone into that on this thread. Living wage needs to take into account what people spend for a house payment or what they pay for rent for a one or two bedroom apartment for one month. In other words, a living wage should be enough to cover either of those two things and still allow the worker at least a minimum of 65% of his take home pay before any other bills are met.

It's not the living wage here that matters. It's what's left over after you pay your living expenses.

And it shouldn't be that hard to do and it shouldn't be that big of a deal, to employers or businesses. We had a living wage in 1975 and our economy was good then. My example was that I worked at minimum wage at $2/hr and was able to pay my rent of $125/month for a one bedroom apartment with no problem then. If you figure that rents today are 8 times what they were then (and are probably more) and you add that to food, gas, utilities, and other necessities that have gone up, and then you look at minimum wage, you will see where minimum wage has not nearly kept close to keeping up to what it should be. Eight times the minimum wage then would be $16/hr now. And one question you have to ask is, if minimum wage should be $16/hr and isn't, where is that money going if it's not going to the workers?

If we could pay a living wage to people 40 years ago, why can't we do it now? That's all I want to know.

And one more thing. We need to quit equating pay to what we think a person is "worth" and base that money on the job and how it relates to our economy. People do the same amount of work they've always done. If you think a worker deserves the pay he's got because he's not good enough to do anything other than a service job, then tell me why that job was worth so much more in 1974 dollars than it is today? Are people working the same jobs now actually worth less money just because the economy has shot past them? And let's take CEOS. Same question. CEOs are making millions of dollars more than they did in 1975. Are you really trying to tell me that they're doing that much more and better work than they were before and that's why they're "worth" the extra money? I don't think so.


edited because usually I can't spell, today I can't seem to do math. sigh

[rodentraiser]

Originally Posted by petch751

And there it is! That's why you defend the government soaking the productive. Yea, I know someone on "disability". And he shouldn't be thats for sure.

You see, I'd like to put enough aside where I never need food stamps but it's people on the dole taking from people like me in my productive years, the government grab making it all the more difficult. Take from me and I could end up where you are and I don't want to ever go there.

I'm going to reply one last time and then that's enough for me.

It only takes one accident, one medical emergency, one natural disaster that isn't your fault but takes you down anyway for you to end up where I am.

You don't know what can and might happen. Don't be so almighty sure nothing bad will happen to you. Just because you do everything "the right way" doesn't mean things can't come crashing down and for someone who isn't looking to fall, the fall is harder and faster and it's not pretty to see. I'm just saying, you might need the help someday. If you have worked and paid taxes, you deserve that help. Take it if you need it and good luck in the future.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

I'm going to reply one last time and then that's enough for me.

It only takes one accident, one medical emergency, one natural disaster that isn't your fault but takes you down anyway for you to end up where I am.

You don't know what can and might happen. Don't be so almighty sure nothing bad will happen to you. Just because you do everything "the right way" doesn't mean things can't come crashing down and for someone who isn't looking to fall, the fall is harder and faster and it's not pretty to see. I'm just saying, you might need the help someday. If you have worked and paid taxes, you deserve that help. Take it if you need it and good luck in the future.

I almost died a couple years back. Before this happened my priorities were in the right place. Instead of wasting my money on the latest foolishness I bought excellent insurance, built a nice emergency fund and had a nice HSA account. My excellent insurance paid as contracted and I paid the deductibles and copays, it went without a hitch. After Obamacare I'm stuck with this crappy expensive insurance but hey, at 54, I got maternity care

Need help? Yea sure lol.... My mother worked, paid into the system for 30+ years. Now that she does need help, she's screwed, she can't get a dime. So I know government won't help even though it robbed me and made it harder to prepare for later years. Government helps the uneducated, the unmotivated and the entitlement minded. So while you get help for so much, don't appreciate it and have the nerve to demand more, people like us pay full price for everything.

Did you ever question why democrats would encourage dependence under the guise of "help" like that? Does government really give you such a good life that you won't do anything to help yourself?

[petch751]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

If we could pay a living wage to people 40 years ago, why can't we do it now? That's all I want to know.

And one more thing. We need to quit equating pay to what we think a person is "worth" and base that money on the job and how it relates to our economy. People do the same amount of work they've always done. If you think a worker deserves the pay he's got because he's not good enough to do anything other than a service job, then tell me why that job was worth so much more in 1974 dollars than it is today? Are people working the same jobs now actually worth less money just because the economy has shot past them? And let's take CEOS. Same question. CEOs are making millions of dollars more than they did in 1975. Are you really trying to tell me that they're doing that much more and better work than they were before and that's why they're "worth" the extra money? I don't think so.


edited because usually I can't spell, today I can't seem to do math. sigh

So you advocate paying a doctor with years of education the same as a burger flipper? LOL. Why not start and run your own business and pay what you want? Why wait for someone else to pay you?

[rodentraiser]

Show where me where I said that.

Originally Posted by petch751

Need help? Yea sure lol.... My mother worked, paid into the system for 30+ years. Now that she does need help, she's screwed, she can't get a dime. So I know government won't help even though it robbed me and made it harder to prepare for later years. Government helps the uneducated, the unmotivated and the entitlement minded. So while you get help for so much, don't appreciate it and have the nerve to demand more, people like us pay full price for everything.

So basically what you're saying is that you're upset that I get help and you think I'm ripping off the taxpayers, but you would be delighted if your mother could do the same.

Hope you don't get cancer. Some wonderful insurance plans have a cap on their payouts, and cancer treatments can easily top a million dollars or more. I'm just a little older than your mother and I had an aneurysm. And I didn't ask for that either. As I said, good luck.