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Old 05-18-2015, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,919 posts, read 13,245,498 times
Reputation: 12642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i don't know many american's who deliver Chinese food on a bicycle in the dead of winter.

there are so many jobs that american's do not want to do themselves.
Do you really believe that America needs to import people in order to deliver food on bicycles? And do you believe that the immigrants coming to this country are all taking the low hanging fruit? Heck no. Go to any very busy metropolitan. They are doing jobs that Americans have always done, when they paid enough to live comfortably.

We are on the cusp of deflation, and a great deal of that has to do with suppressed wages. If you ask me, immigrants have been used as a means of wage price control for at least the past decade. They have been injected into a wide range of professions, taking on roles up and down the ladder.

In many cases, "jobs Americans won't do" just means jobs Americans won't do for low wages.
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
8,139 posts, read 7,463,231 times
Reputation: 17039
Illegal aliens generally do the jobs most Americans will not.

Who wants to pick tobacco by hand in North Carolina in August?

It's one of the few positions legally available for illegal aliens.
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 4,008,927 times
Reputation: 9985
There are so many economic priniciples ignored here. First of all introducing more employees into the work pool increases supply and drives down wages. It takes wages forever to rebound from ANY decrease.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,730,147 times
Reputation: 4206
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
Who wants to pick tobacco by hand in North Carolina in August?
See my post on the first page.

There is a wage where you will have no problem whatsoever hiring US citizens to do that work. What do you think? My guess is that $15/hr would be more than sufficient.

I bailed hay in humid 90+ weather for minimum wage in HS, and nobody forced me to do it.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
8,139 posts, read 7,463,231 times
Reputation: 17039
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
See my post on the first page.

There is a wage where you will have no problem whatsoever hiring US citizens to do that work. What do you think? My guess is that $15/hr would be more than sufficient.

I bailed hay in humid 90+ weather for minimum wage in HS, and nobody forced me to do it.
They don't get paid by the hour. They get paid by weight so your point is kind of moot however I see your point.

There are a lot of unskilled jobs I could get if had to but many I will not do.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,576,226 times
Reputation: 4521
Long time ago, you'd pay $20 to a college student to mow your lawn. Now you pay $25 and it's a whole crew of Mexicans. So what is the college student supposed to do ? He can't compete.

Practically all landscaping companies around here employ exclusively Mexicans. Does it mean that there was no landscaping jobs 30 years ago ? Or that these Mexican immigrants, many of whom came here to live 4-6 per apartment or a rental home so that they could make some money, had driven the wages so low that an American who has to live here simple can't compete ?

Go to the higher paying jobs, and look at the IT. The whole departments now are staffed by H1B visa holders, primary from India. Where they used to employ Americans and pay them $60-70k per year, they now employ Indians and pay them below $40k per year, plus if the manager is also Indian he often receives a cut of their salary under the table for hiring them (which is why an Indian department manager almost always means that the department will be soon staffed only by Indians, and I mean India born and raised people for whom giving 15% of their salary to the manager in exchange for a job is a normal way of doing business).

Now, if you spent years and tens of thousands of dollars getting an IT degree, and you have wife and kids and the house, will you be able to cut your salary in half to compete with them ?

Immigration can be very good or very bad, it all depends on the policy. Bring in highly skilled, well educated young people, who will be competing on the same salary level as the comparable American workers, and are planning on staying in this country so they can't be engaging in a cutthroat wage dumping, and you prosper. That's how Canada does it with their points system and a crackdown on work visas.

Or there's an American way - Walmartization through immigration. Short term gain for a few, Long term loss for all.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,919 posts, read 13,245,498 times
Reputation: 12642
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
Illegal aliens generally do the jobs most Americans will not.

Who wants to pick tobacco by hand in North Carolina in August?

It's one of the few positions legally available for illegal aliens.
Americans traditionally picked tobacco. My grandmother's family worked in the fields picking tobacco in fact. What changed? Factory work paid more, which is why many traveled north. Illegals would eventually take their place.

Decades later, the factories started to disappear. People weren't traveling across the nation to work in factories anymore. What change? Jobs were exported and illegals began filling vacancies that remained in many cases. The changing economy drove the wages down to a point where Americans were no longer willing to sweat for a living. The illegals were happy to take their place.

None of this is necessary. It is easier to import cheap labor however, so Americans can enjoy cheaper goods and services. The wiser solution would be to drastically scale back the welfare state we have entrapped a great many citizens in. Empower them to take control of their own economic future instead of depending on a government check. There is something satisfying about earning your own way in this world, but that's something that many Americans have no concept or understanding of.

Basically, we have serious cultural problems that should be addressed.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:55 AM
 
12,405 posts, read 9,195,957 times
Reputation: 8856
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i don't know many american's who deliver Chinese food on a bicycle in the dead of winter.

there are so many jobs that american's do not want to do themselves.
If I were that desperate and they offered it, I would take it.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:31 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 1,401,565 times
Reputation: 960
As population grows, everything becomes more expensive. There are less resources to go around.

As density increases taxes increase. Is NYC cheaper than Kansas?

This looks like a troll thread. Developers seem to have tricked everyone into thinking more people means lower taxes and cost of living. It should not take much consideration to realize this is completely the opposite. Yet it seems like no one is ever allowed to even ask whether limitless growth is good or should continue until there are resource wars.

The primary reason US population is growing is Mexican immigration. The problem with Mexican immigration is they adopt American consumption levels and living patterns within one generation. It will be unfortunate if there are no rural places left in the world. And expensive. Is that the future you want for your grandchildren?

I guess we can always escape to Mars in a few centuries. :/
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:50 PM
 
6,863 posts, read 7,714,345 times
Reputation: 2960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SavannahLife View Post
As population grows, everything becomes more expensive. There are less resources to go around.

As density increases taxes increase. Is NYC cheaper than Kansas?

This looks like a troll thread. Developers seem to have tricked everyone into thinking more people means lower taxes and cost of living. It should not take much consideration to realize this is completely the opposite. Yet it seems like no one is ever allowed to even ask whether limitless growth is good or should continue until there are resource wars.

The primary reason US population is growing is Mexican immigration. The problem with Mexican immigration is they adopt American consumption levels and living patterns within one generation. It will be unfortunate if there are no rural places left in the world. And expensive. Is that the future you want for your grandchildren?

I guess we can always escape to Mars in a few centuries. :/


Population growth is not being concentrated in urban areas. Suburbs are growing rapidly. We have enough room in the country for as much immigrants as possible.
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