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Also simply false is the popular notion that the wealthy do not derive massive benefits from government spending. Who educated the workers at Mr. Fat-Cat's factory for him? Who built the roads and transit systems that carry those workers to and from work each day? Who makes sure that clean water and electricity get brought into his buildings and that trash and sewage are promptly carried away?
I think you have the dependency backwards.
Without a functioning economy the government would have nobody to collect taxes from, and therefore no means to build roads or attempt to educate children. It is the economy driven by the free enterprise system that enables government to exist in the forms we know of today.
Also, electricity, and in many cases water, are provided by private companies, not by the government.
You are severely afflicted with some misconceptions.
You appear to believe that the "getting of money" in a legal way is somehow holy and righteous and perfect. In truth it is an artifact of our laws, customs, and regulations. People can get money into their accounts in all sorts of ways, many of them actually destructive to society and aggregate wealth. The behaviors that we'd most like to reward are those that result in higher productivity. Invention and technology, and investment in production.
Another false belief you have is that we can have a prosperous society without wealth redistribution. Consumer capitalism simply doesn't function without it, since it is symbiotic, relying on the buying power of consumers just as much as investment in production. If the "investor class" takes too much of the economy, they soon find that investment makes no sense since poor consumers can't buy, and will either sit on their fortunes, inflate assets, or leave with them (invest in other countries) if given the chance. This is precisely what has happened to the US.
Most developed countries use extensive wage boosting along with high taxation to balance the equation. Much more so than the US. The US is suffering from too little wealth redistribution rather than too much.
Wow, so you're all for theft. Still trying to wrap my head around the fact that earning money legally is immoral, yet stealing those legally earned monies is moral.
Seems like alot of confusion going on between corporate revenue and individual income. Corporations and businesses do typically use more governent services than the individual. But their revenue is treated differently. A rich individual might use substantially less government services than a poor individual.
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
Also simply false is the popular notion that the wealthy do not derive massive benefits from government spending. Who educated the workers at Mr. Fat-Cat's factory for him? Who built the roads and transit systems that carry those workers to and from work each day? Who makes sure that clean water and electricity get brought into his buildings and that trash and sewage are promptly carried away?
^^^ omg, can you come up with anything original other than Obama and Liz Warren's worn out talking points trying to justify taking more of the hard working American's money? Really?
There wasn't any dependency. It was simply pointed out that the lion's share of public benefits goes to the lion. The lion's public relations department may want you to believe that food stamps and UI benefits are the big slices of the pie here, but we all know better than that, do we not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat
Without a functioning economy the government would have nobody to collect taxes from, and therefore no means to build roads or attempt to educate children. It is the economy driven by the free enterprise system that enables government to exist in the forms we know of today.
LOL! All systems have rules. Even the most primitive and indefensible ones. It is the wanton physical and economic terror wrought under the rules of your supposed "free enterprise system" that lead people to write down more civilized rules to protect themselves from base and rapacious exploitation. At the beginning, someone needs to define and defend property rights. Someone needs to write and apply contract, commercial, and employment law. It is governments that need to do these things. They do not get done by some imaginary "free enterprise system", and without such forms and laws, no recognizable economy will ever occur. Regulation is the father and mother of proper economic activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat
Also, electricity, and in many cases water, are provided by private companies, not by the government.
Do you always need to be this evasive? If so, should that not tell you something?
Without a functioning economy the government would have nobody to collect taxes from, and therefore no means to build roads or attempt to educate children.
Without a functioning government, then there is no functioning economy. Unless you like tyranny and poverty. This is obvious if you pay any attention to world affairs and history. Even common sense should be adequate. Our founding fathers certainly knew this to be true.
It thoroughly amazes me how ignorant semi-intelligent functional people can be. Open your eyes and think a bit. Consumer capitalism has proven to be the most successful economic system, but only when paired with a strong government and extensive taxes, wage supports, and public benefits. Every developed country does this. Nearly all of them much more than the US. There are a few countries that tax nearly twice as much as the US.
The man you'll be wanting to go back in the time machine to assassinate, OP, is Richard Milhous Nixon, who in about 1973 took us out of Bretton Woods and closed the gold window, beginning the modern monetary era.
The man you'll be wanting to go back in the time machine to assassinate, OP, is Richard Milhous Nixon, who in about 1973 took us out of Bretton Woods and closed the gold window, beginning the modern monetary era.
Like every Republican since, Nixon was a pretty poor President. But Bretton Woods was as dead as a doornail well before Nixon was ever elected. Keep in mind that this was a temporary international system set up to enable and advance economic recovery from WWII. The more such recovery occurred, the less the system was actually needed anymore. By the mid-1960's, surpluses of external US dollars were building up, and the system of artificially pegged rates and standards was becoming increasingly untenable. All Nixon did was dot the final "i" and cross the final "t".
It's like fiscal liberals are of the view that people don't actually own anything. That everything people make belongs to the state, and that it's actually the state that is giving money to the tax payer by leaving something left instead of taking all of it.
Well I got news for you, things don't work that way.
Can arguments be given in favor of taxing some people differently than others? Perhaps. But please for the love of god, stop this bull**** about how taxing people less is giving them more money. It's not.
End of rant.
We have not done a good enough job at teaching people the difference between capitalism and socialism. Some people may not like the latter if it hits them up close and personal.
We have not done a good enough job at teaching people the difference between capitalism and socialism. Some people may not like the latter if it hits them up close and personal.
People think they'll like socialism because of disinformation. When selling the idea of socialism, like any good salesmen, its proponents focus only on the fantasy world of the workers’ paradise. Selling the idea of fair distribution of wealth to poor farmers or laborers is not hard to do.
Last edited by petch751; 06-03-2015 at 11:16 PM..
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