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Old 06-23-2015, 03:55 AM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,655,018 times
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Woe is us.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:07 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,431,507 times
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Quote:

Wealth and debt typically go hand in hand. It is the impoverished who tend
to have the least access to credit. It's pretty much been that way through
all of recorded history.
Credit has done a thousand times more to enrich mankind than all the gold mines in the world. It has exalted labor, stimulated manufacture and pushed commerce over every sea– Daniel Webster
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:17 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,431,507 times
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Originally Posted by mickdoo View Post
The single biggest threat to the american economy is the national debt. When interest rates rise and we have to pay that debt down, watch out. Our true gdp since the great recession is minimal. We never exceeded 3% GDP, and this was after our Liar in chief decided to change the way it is calculated. You can compare our economy to a bright shiny automobile with outstanding paint and interior, but under the hood is a hamster wheel. So look for more taxes,it is inevitable. The second part is the governments regulations which strangle business. America is running on the inertia of what it once was nothing more. Oh you can sit their and say everything is just peachy, but you will be just lying to yourself. Live in your little fantasy world, it will last for a while but guess what? Reality is not a tv show.
The national debt will never be paid down. Debt is money and money is debt at the national currency level. If all debt was paid, there would be no money. There is not enough money in circulation to pay down the debt AND interest because the money for EVERYONE to pay their debt obligation in full (penalty+interest) is not created. Debt will always be increasing.

It is well enough that the people of this nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.-Henry Ford

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it (the power to create deposits) away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.”
— Sir Josiah Stamp, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920′s, the second richest man in Britain)

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:00 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,251,442 times
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Originally Posted by mickdoo View Post
You are dreaming here
I am? This is a dream? Is City-Data even real?
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Savannah
2,099 posts, read 2,276,681 times
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the biggest threat is the Obama death panels. Because they are deadly. obv.
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
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Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Credit has done a thousand times more to enrich mankind than all the gold mines in the world. It has exalted labor, stimulated manufacture and pushed commerce over every sea– Daniel Webster
Debt that leads to increased productivity makes us richer. That would be infrastructure, research and tech, education, etc.

Debt that simply fills the hole between production and consumption so the economy can keep going is unsustainable and ends in disaster.
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
605 posts, read 491,411 times
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Accelerationism.
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,428 posts, read 18,684,164 times
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Major Barbara imagines:
"As the US produces about 22% of all the real goods and services produced anywhere in the world, a lot of whatever currency oil producers accept will have to be converted into dollars if they are not dollars to begin with. "

Anybody see the catch in that sentence? The catch is the word "services". Services do not create wealth. They are a transfer of money for services rendered and with each transfer the value declines. Services kill money long term.

"Goods" create money. Whether it is oil, coal, minerals, lumber or construction, the material created adds to the economy. The export of these products brings new money into our economy. The same is true for all nations. Today there are more middle class people in Red China than our entire population. We don't ship much product to Red China. We send dollars to Red China. They are buying up our nation. They just bought Smithfield Foods, the largest pork producer in the world. With it they got 480 giant farms in our Midwest. All of those employees now work for Red China.

The day of the $49.95 microwave oven at Walmart will soon be over.

Last edited by Northern Maine Land Man; 06-23-2015 at 08:43 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:27 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,471,648 times
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Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Debt that leads to increased productivity makes us richer. That would be infrastructure, research and tech, education, etc.

Debt that simply fills the hole between production and consumption so the economy can keep going is unsustainable and ends in disaster.
Though not specifically just meant augment our economy, a very large part of our debt is based in our HC needs, more specifically with seniors and Medicare. And that vast amount of new money created not only supports a vast medical-industrial complex, it also of course improves on the health, lives and happiness of millions of seniors on an ongoing basis. Huge, huge value in life's improvements where no one actually goes out and and calculates any positive number.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:29 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,251,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Services do not create wealth. They are a transfer of money for services rendered and with each transfer the value declines. Services kill money long term.
Buying services is the number one reason people need money. If services don't create wealth, you have a very unusual definition of wealth.
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