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Old 01-25-2008, 09:45 AM
 
955 posts, read 2,157,642 times
Reputation: 405

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
You forget who owns the big companies - shareholders. People want to complain all the time about big oil, Walmart, Nike, et al. Rather than complaining, and then buying the useless product, buy their shares, and MAKE money when someone buys their stuff.
Most everyone who has a retirement plan or contributes to a 401K or other similar plans is also a shareholder. People are real happy to see their pension plan funds go up, and somehow seem to forget that it is big oil, big pharm, etc. that is making their gains possible.

As far as lamenting loss of manufacturing, did anyone see Microsofts latest earnings report? Tax incentives for capital equipment is a good thing, but do you think Bill Gates ws worried about punch press funding when he dreamed up his little company? Therefore, let's concentrate on the industries which offer the greatest potential for our country, and not get hung up on living in the past.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:27 PM
 
1,257 posts, read 4,575,778 times
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BTW, China has imported a lot of construction materials from USA.

American companies are the ones who make huge profit. Without these companies, no Chinese products will be sold here. In order to push profit margins, they are exploring cheaper and cheaper labors even within China. Chinese workers often work for $1 per hour so they can feed their families. Yes, it is a big improvement from 10 cents per hour (wow, 10 fold pay increase). Yes, they can afford eating steaks now. If something went wrong, Chinese are the ones to blame. Not big American companies who imported products without safety specifications and inspections. I often wonder what is going on. And I often wonder whether it is better for Chinese to keep eating vegetables instead of all the red meat. Most recently, some of these companies complained about Chinese labor being too expensive and plan to move their operations to Vietnam. Fresh blood tastes better.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:42 PM
 
638 posts, read 2,280,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LingLing View Post
BTW, China has imported a lot of construction materials from USA.

American companies are the ones who make huge profit. Without these companies, no Chinese products will be sold here. In order to push profit margins, they are exploring cheaper and cheaper labors even within China. Chinese workers often work for $1 per hour so they can feed their families. Yes, it is a big improvement from 10 cents per hour (wow, 10 fold pay increase). Yes, they can afford eating steaks now. If something went wrong, Chinese are the ones to blame. Not big American companies who imported products without safety specifications and inspections. I often wonder what is going on. And I often wonder whether it is better for Chinese to keep eating vegetables instead of all the red meat. Most recently, some of these companies complained about Chinese labor being too expensive and plan to move their operations to Vietnam. Fresh blood tastes better.
Well at what point are we supporting (encouraging) slavery? I hate the way China treats its people, it makes me sick.
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
We are a consumer nation now..our economy thrives by us spending. We offshored almost all our manufacturing. What is left here cannot sustain the US.

Yes we have free trade but we don't have "fair" trade. We get goods cheaper because we don't make them anymore.

US mfg cannot compete with third world countries either for blue collar or white collar jobs. It will never come back. We are reaping what we have sown.
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningGlory View Post
Well at what point are we supporting (encouraging) slavery? I hate the way China treats its people, it makes me sick.
China is a communist country..that has not changed. Big corporate turns a blind eye unless they are exposed in the media and then there's a rush job to "clean it up".

By buying "made in China" you are in fact supporting slavery whether you know it or not.
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:27 PM
 
Location: USA
4,978 posts, read 9,514,655 times
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There is no such thing as free trade, because it's all regulated.
Canada is our largest trading partner, so look it up if you don't believe it.

But Globalization has hurt us. Our ancestors worked very hard to get our standard of living up through good wages.
Now, this is being broken down because the profits are in the hands of very few. They don't want the wealth spread around the middle class. In fact, they don't want the middle class at all.
Globalization is about companies finding the cheapest labor they can. Business owners look at labor as an unpleasant thing they have to pay for to have a business. They are taught the quickest way to make money is to get rid of workers.

Don't expect this to get better. If you think competing with near-slave wages internationally is "free trade", think twice. It is only good for those who make the huge profits, not YOU!
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:38 PM
 
86 posts, read 243,034 times
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"By buying "made in China" you are in fact supporting slavery whether you know it or not."
You mean chinese people are the slaves of their goverment or the big american corperations?
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,026,786 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1 View Post
Now, this is being broken down because the profits are in the hands of very few. They don't want the wealth spread around the middle class. In fact, they don't want the middle class at all.
Globalization is about companies finding the cheapest labor they can. Business owners look at labor as an unpleasant thing they have to pay for to have a business. They are taught the quickest way to make money is to get rid of workers.
This is just untrue on so many levels:

The profits are not in the hands of the very few. First off, as mentioned earlier in the thread, most Americans are stockholders and share in the profits. Second, we have a very fluid class system in America. People go in and out of the upper, middle, and lower classes all the time. Sure, some people stay where they are but studies have shown that many of the upper class will not be there in 10 years and many new people will. Three, "excessive" profit entices other companies into a market. Four, if profit is really "excessive" then at some point the market takes over and companies begin lowering prices to undercut each other. Just look at a gas station by itself versus one next to a competing gas station. By the way, if the government would remove restrictions that prohibit Wal-mart from selling gas then you would see prices come down. A protectionist government is rarely good for the consumer, especially in the long run.

Of course corporations want a middle class. They want people to be able to afford their products. Henry Ford figured this out a century ago.

Of course corporations are looking to cut costs. If they can find cheaper labor overseas then they take it. That makes the corporation leaner and more competitive in the global market. That frees up workers in America to do other jobs. If corporations do not constantly seek to cut costs then the end up bloated in uncompetitive much like you have seen the American auto industry become over the past couple of decades. However, this same competitive pressure also benefits the consumer with lower prices, higher quality, and more innovation.

As a business owner I don't look at labor as an unpleasant thing. I look at employees are very valuable and I try to pay them enough to avoid constant turnover. I think most business owners have this same mindset. However a corporation can not afford to become bloated or it will go out of business and that is not good for the employees either. So in the natural course of business some employees will get laid off. I am not categorically opposed to unions but if they get too strong then it throws off the balance of the relationship between the employer and its employees then the entire company suffers and eventually can not compete.

Who is teaching that the quickest way to get rid of cost is to get rid of employees? It is a quick way to reduce costs but it can come back to haunt a company too.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 26,749,371 times
Reputation: 5038
Free trade is not the problem. If Government would get out of the way of business, I am confident that domestic manufacturing could flourish. Frivolous lawsuits, high taxes, astronomical real estate prices and unreasonable regulations drive jobs overseas. Products such as stamped steel, injection molded plastics, bearings. bolts, etc. could be made domestically for less than manufacturing overseas and paying the cost of shipping. I believe that automation can outdo cheap labor, with higher quality. Government regulations prevent true free trade. It's no secret that I blame Government for almost all the world's problems, because they are the only entities without accountability. If a business does not provide a quality product you are free to take your business elsewhere, in a free market. There is no free market in the United States.
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