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The reality is that over a few years, other wages adjust upwards. So you raise the minimum wage, and the next year Union shops, non profits, and large companies do salary surveys to determine how to adjust their salaries. Eventually all salaries adjust upwards due to the minimum wage hike. Price increases adjust up too.
$15 an hour will be equivalent to $7 an hour when all other wages bump up.
Raising the minimum wages helps nobody but most folks don't know enough about economics to understand that.
Hurts seniors who may be on fixed incomes. If they don't have pensions that adjust with inflation. That's the biggest group hurt by inflation.
Do you know enough about economics to know what kind of money supply we have?
Are we on a gold standard? True/False?
All of you seem not to understand that our money supply is INFLATIONARY. Fixed wages make NO SENSE in an inflationary monetary system. Wages can, and should, be inflated with the official CPI rate. Where to initially place the minimum wage is a matter of debate, although I'd place it at $10.90 an hour, equivalent to the highest U.S. minimum wage in 1968.
It doesn't matter "how hard" anyone works. If your labor is worth a fixed amount, in an inflationary environment it loses value.
The upper-half of us, with passive income streams or middle-class-style jobs where 3% raises happen every year, keep pace with it. The rest of us do not.
the half that keeps pace also have skills that keep pace...
the half that dont stay at the same job for decades, not learning new skills...
or even a programmer, without learning new skills, he finds himself out of a job in a decade...
ask a walmart stocker if anything has changed from ten years ago? why is he still working there then?
why do people expect their wages to increase without increasing their skills at same time?
it really isnt even that hard to get a $15/hour job... they could have it just working better jobs but they want to stay at low skill jobs so they protest for higher pay
Is there a reason you're dodging my question? The answer should be pretty easy. Here it is again:
Not sure why you are making it about me but there is no market value just like there is no market value at any job. If there is show me a list or chart of a bunch of jobs and there market value. Market value would mean the same jobs all pay the same salary like all cashier get paid the same but they are not because there is no thing as market value. Market value is is a made up term businesses use so they can pay whatever they want.
So what do you do about the mass population explosion in the USA that is driving down free market wages? What about companies that are doing everything they can to get H1B visa holders in the country? What about companies that are allowed to outsource without any sort of significant tarrif/tax consequences? What about companies that are allowed to import goods made with slave labor with no/minimal tarrifs?
What about companies that are allowed to steal peoples ideas and patents even if the idea was not part of their direct job description?
If buisnesses were forced to pay true free market prices (not global slave labor rates) then I would agree but we have not had a free market since shortly after WW2. Human labor, even engineers have too little value because the competition is unhealthy.
The reality is that over a few years, other wages adjust upwards. So you raise the minimum wage, and the next year Union shops, non profits, and large companies do salary surveys to determine how to adjust their salaries. Eventually all salaries adjust upwards due to the minimum wage hike. Price increases adjust up too. $15 an hour will be equivalent to $7 an hour when all other wages bump up. Raising the minimum wages helps nobody but most folks don't know enough about economics to understand that. Hurts seniors who may be on fixed incomes. If they don't have pensions that adjust with inflation. That's the biggest group hurt by inflation.
minimum wage increases always lag. By the time they are enacted they are not worth the value of what the increase would have been if it had been enacted sooner, but the key to that isn't to just never raise wages but to index minimum wage increases to inflation. And yes, there's a ripple effect but most economists see that as desirable because it boosts the wages of a large number of workers who earn up to 150% of the minimum wage. It does not tend to increase all wages:
Quote:
An increase in the minimum wage tends to have a “ripple effect” on other workers earning wages near that threshold. This ripple effect occurs when a raise in the minimum wage increases the wage received by workers earning slightly above the minimum wage. This effect of the statutory minimum wage on wages paid at the low end of the wage distribution more generally is well recognized in the academic literature. Based on this recognition, we quantify the number of workers potentially affected by minimum wage policy using the assumption that workers earning up to 150 percent of the minimum wage would see a wage increase from a higher minimum wage. We hasten to note that a complete analysis of the net effects of a minimum wage increase would also have to account for potential negative employment effects. Our main goal of this empirical exercise is to dispel the notion that the minimum wage is not a relevant policy lever, which is based on the faulty premise that only a small number of workers would be affected.
As our economy continues to recover, a minimum wage increase could provide a much-needed boost to the earnings of low-wage workers. A significant 35 million workers from across the country could see their wages rise if the minimum wage were increased, allowing them to earn a better livelihood and lead more economically secure lives. When discussing the minimum wage, this is the magnitude of the impact that policymakers should consider.
And again Storm Eagle is arguing against a straw man. You must be looking for the thread where someone is claiming that raising the minimum wage won't give anyone raises or raise anyone out of poverty, or maybe one that says x amount of families will be lifted out of poverty. Here in this thread I'm claiming most minimum wage workers are in households that aren't under poverty level, so for about the 200th time you're trying to refute that by proving something entirely different.
Here I'll review for you since you seem incapable of getting your head around this: LieQiang's position = "The majority of minimum wage workers are not part of households that are under the poverty level."
Neither of your links refutes that, and neither backs up your utterly asinine assertion that min wage workers must take those jobs or go homeless.
I await your next straw man argument...
I refused everything you said you just refuse to accept that. Look at the last thing I wrote on my last post that same website says in 2016 45 million families will be in poverty which means all a lot if not all of them will be min wage workers.
Not sure why you are making it about me but there is no market value just like there is no market value at any job.
It's about you because you are the one claiming that there is no market value.
Quote:
If there is show me a list or chart of a bunch of jobs and there market value. Market value would mean the same jobs all pay the same salary like all cashier get paid the same but they are not because there is no thing as market value.
Market value doesn't mean that there is a list with all jobs and their pay rate. Market value is very dynamic, and can be different for different people, different locations, and a multitude of other reasons.
I presented an example of market value to you earlier, but it apparently went over your head, so here it is again:
Market value for no-skill labor in my market is approx. $11/hour, even though the Federal MW is $7.25/hour. That means that a no-skill worker can go out today, in my market area, and reasonably be expected to be able to get a job paying around $11/hour. Does that mean there is a "list" showing what all jobs pay? Of course not.
Quote:
Market value is is a made up term businesses use so they can pay whatever they want.
Ridiculous. Businesses can't pay "whatever they want." If they could, you would get paid nothing for your job. I assume you are paid more than nothing. You are paid "market value." Are you employed at a higher level than a no-skill burger flipper? If so, you are also getting paid more than minimum wage. Guess what? You are paid "market value." But understand that this doesn't mean that you are paid the same as everyone who has the same job that you do. You need to drop that incredibly naive notion.
IDK I went back to school to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" and practice the Holy Grail of right wingers-Personal Responsibility!! SAdly it wasn't until I moved overseas that I was able to find work that paid enough to save and invest. All the going back to school, reinventing yourself, and all those other tired worn out cliches, won't do you much good if there's nothing but $8-10 per hour jobs, that at least where I lived, was pretty much all there was, especially for someone NOT 22 years old anymore
IDK I went back to school to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" and practice the Holy Grail of right wingers-Personal Responsibility!! SAdly it wasn't until I moved overseas that I was able to find work that paid enough to save and invest. All the going back to school, reinventing yourself, and all those other tired worn out cliches, won't do you much good if there's nothing but $8-10 per hour jobs, that at least where I lived, was pretty much all there was, especially for someone NOT 22 years old anymore
Where did you go to school, what did you study, and what degree(s) did you earn?
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