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There are currently 3 huge economic/social debates going on in many western countries: Taxes, low wages, and the welfare state. Here is a short version of what they are about:
Some people say: They need to be progressive so the poor pay less.
Others say: They need to be the same for all so the tax system isn't too complex and because it is more fair that people are treated the same.
Wages.
Some people say: We need a high minimum wage so that everyone can earn a good income.
Others say: Government meddling with wages just creates inflation.
Welfare.
Some people say: We need government programs that give money to those who need it.
Other say: Welfare just makes people lazy and greedy.
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I believe I have a fairly simple solution to all of these problems: The universial supplementary wage credit! (SWC for short).
Basically the manner in which it would work is that all individuals regardless of income are entitled to monthly "wage credits" which is used to add extra money on top of a person's wage. For example, let's say that the wage credit is a 100 bucks. Then a person who is working will be given 1 extra dollar for each dollar he earns up to a max of a 100 dollars, during that month. These wage credits can stack, which means that if a person does not earn anything for 2 months for example, then they can be paid up to 200 dollars next time they start working. Here is why I believe this would be a great idea:
1. It eliminates the need for complex/progressive tax systems.
Since this is paid for with taxes and everybody gets the same credits regardless of income, this means that this is effectively paid for by the wealther elements of society and is thus progressive. Since this policy would mean chunks of the money made by the rich make it into the pockets of everybody else there would be no need for a progressive tax system. Instead, a very simplistic tax system where everyone is treated the same would work just fine.
2. It eliminates the need for the minimum wage.
The purpose of the minimum wage is to redistribute wealth from the wealthy and to everybody else. This policy does the same thing, but without the bad economic risks that come with messing with wages and setting them artificually. Thus if this were done the minimum wage could simply be scrapped.
3. It eliminates the need for most other kinds of welfare.
While the unemployed, the disabled and the old would still need their own welfare since they can't work, this would remove the need for any other kind of welfare. The welfare state would become far more simple and cheaper to run.
4. It gives people a reason to work instead of giving them a reason to not work.
With this policy the government is basically paying you to work. That's better than paying people to not work.
this is a really strange proposal. this already basically happens with the government not taxing a large number of lower earning individuals. you said your idea doesn't impact non-working people, so the entire public assistance apparatus remains unchanged.. so I really don't see much benefit from your proposal. sorry.
this is a really strange proposal. this already basically happens with the government not taxing a large number of lower earning individuals.
No, having separate income tax brackets for people with low incomes is very different from the idea I proposed. There are 2 problems with the idea of having more than one income tax bracket:
1. It can only benefit low income earners to a degree. A lower income tax only means you don't pay more of your income, but it doesn't actually increase your income.
2. It's a form of discrimination and sends the wrong message. Who decides at what point people are rich enough to be worthy of a higher tax bracket? My idea redistributes wealth without the need for many different tax brackets for different income groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
you said your idea doesn't impact non-working people, so the entire public assistance apparatus remains unchanged
No it doesn't. In this system there would be no form of benefits other than unemployment, disability and pensions (and of course UWC). This means that while wealth is redistributed, it is done so in a way that does not incentivize bad life styles. The problem with many current benefit programs is that they is that they don't incentivize people to behave responsibly. Child benefits are a perfect example of this, with many women not giving a damn about being careful because they can just accept child benefit if they get into trouble or decide to have kids with a moron who then instantly leaves. The end result is more government dependence. Since all such benefits would be completely scrapped were UWS to be implemented, this would no longer be possible to get away with.
There are currently 3 huge economic/social debates going on in many western countries: Taxes, low wages, and the welfare state. Here is a short version of what they are about:
Some people say: They need to be progressive so the poor pay less.
Others say: They need to be the same for all so the tax system isn't too complex and because it is more fair that people are treated the same.
Wages.
Some people say: We need a high minimum wage so that everyone can earn a good income.
Others say: Government meddling with wages just creates inflation.
Welfare.
Some people say: We need government programs that give money to those who need it.
Other say: Welfare just makes people lazy and greedy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have a fairly simple solution to all of these problems: The universial supplementary wage credit! (SWC for short).
Basically the manner in which it would work is that all individuals regardless of income are entitled to monthly "wage credits" which is used to add extra money on top of a person's wage. For example, let's say that the wage credit is a 100 bucks. Then a person who is working will be given 1 extra dollar for each dollar he earns up to a max of a 100 dollars, during that month. These wage credits can stack, which means that if a person does not earn anything for 2 months for example, then they can be paid up to 200 dollars next time they start working. Here is why I believe this would be a great idea:
1. It eliminates the need for complex/progressive tax systems.
Since this is paid for with taxes and everybody gets the same credits regardless of income, this means that this is effectively paid for by the wealther elements of society and is thus progressive. Since this policy would mean chunks of the money made by the rich make it into the pockets of everybody else there would be no need for a progressive tax system. Instead, a very simplistic tax system where everyone is treated the same would work just fine.
2. It eliminates the need for the minimum wage.
The purpose of the minimum wage is to redistribute wealth from the wealthy and to everybody else. This policy does the same thing, but without the bad economic risks that come with messing with wages and setting them artificually. Thus if this were done the minimum wage could simply be scrapped.
3. It eliminates the need for most other kinds of welfare.
While the unemployed, the disabled and the old would still need their own welfare since they can't work, this would remove the need for any other kind of welfare. The welfare state would become far more simple and cheaper to run.
4. It gives people a reason to work instead of giving them a reason to not work.
With this policy the government is basically paying you to work. That's better than paying people to not work.
What do you think about my idea?
What we need is basic income, not this mess. Basic income would end the need for all other kinds of welfare. The conservatives hate the idea of it, so I naturally love it.
What we need is basic income, not this mess. Basic income would end the need for all other kinds of welfare. The conservatives hate the idea of it, so I naturally love it.
Who is going to pay for this basic income ?
Please don't tell me "the rich".
We ALL would-not just the rich, although they would have a large burden. I've provided examples of how it would work. But that being said its a MASSIVE tax level if its to do any good. And I just dont think we're at a place where that burden is reasonable.
Basically imagine taxation levels doubling, thats what it would take. For giggles though.....for the majority of people they would be better off-IE the taxes taken out would be less then the income they got as a family. So its also not as bad as it sounds.
Give it another decade however, and I think our income might make it reasonable. So while I dont think it would be a good idea today, I do believe it will be eventually.
And its a lot simpler then this work credit idea that to be honest would just create more bureaucracy and not solve problems. Its a fascinating idea though so maybe I am missing something.
What we need is basic income, not this mess. Basic income would end the need for all other kinds of welfare. The conservatives hate the idea of it, so I naturally love it.
Basic income is really just a more stupid version of what I suggested, where it is given to everybody regardless of if they work or not. Why is that a smarter policy?
Basic income is really just a more stupid version of what I suggested, where it is given to everybody regardless of if they work or not. Why is that a smarter policy?
It completely resolves poverty, it allows us to get rid of a LOT of the management of 100's of different programs, and it applies to everyone equally.
It will also deal with a future where automation has decimated the job market. Your idea just makes that future worse.
It also allows choices like furthering your education without losing your income stream, and the ability to start a business without fear of losing everything. I could go on.
Your problem is that you want to turn "working" into a morality play. Where the good people are those working, and the bad worthless people are all of those who cannot find work.
Reality is that your job is most likely going to be automated away.
It completely resolves poverty, it allows us to get rid of a LOT of the management of 100's of different programs, and it applies to everyone equally.
Quote:
The causes of poverty include changing trends in a country’s economy, lack of education, high divorce rate which causes feminization of poverty, having a culture of poverty, overpopulation, epidemic diseases such as AIDS and malaria,[1] and environmental problems such as lack of rainfall.[2][3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_poverty
Give a crack head $1,000,000, there is a high probability they will still end up poor.
Who is going to pay for this basic income ? Please don't tell me "the rich".
Expanding on greywar's comments, the day will come when "the rich" will support basic income because they will realize it is the only way they can stay wealthy. Imagine if robotics displace human labor and produce all needed material goods. If everyone is unemployed and has no income, they cannot buy the goods that the robot-filled factories produce. The wealthy factory owners will realize that the only way to keep the factories open and generating profits is if there's some way to get money into the hands of the displaced workers. Basic income would provide that discretionary income to the non-working. As the non-working people buy products the robots produce, the wealthy keep making profits and everyone's happy.
This is not that radical of a idea. We already have pieces of it with minimum wage, EITC, food stamps, welfare and unemployment insurance.
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