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Old 01-14-2016, 12:24 PM
 
309 posts, read 513,906 times
Reputation: 1100

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The US has a shortage of "slaves of slaves" labor. That's for sure.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:51 PM
 
24,522 posts, read 18,039,741 times
Reputation: 40209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Someone would declare hilarity if the information refuted the propaganda that has provided by the Obama administration in an effort to make themselves look good and feel better.

Labor force participation is a very important metric. The fact is, there are not enough jobs in America to satisfy the needs of a population of 325 million people.
This is not a political problem. It is a structural economic problem. I don't care who you pick for President. Mitt. McCain. Ronnie. Abe. There is no political rhetoric that is going to fix the structural economic problem. Between globalization and automation, the bottom third of the population is no longer economically viable. They're only worth minimum wage. There's your labor participation rate problem. Anybody worth hiring already has a good job and that's why the headline U1 unemployment rate is 5% reflecting full employment.

Nothing the Republicans have proposed in the last couple of decades would help the problem. Erect a wall and deport all the illegals. That bottom 30% still isn't going to want to pick lettuce, mow lawns, or clean toilets. You can cut taxes all you want and corporations aren't going to hire those people. Going "Full Bernie" would be equally ineffective. If you hike the minimum wage to $25.00/hour, it just increases the rate of automation and increases the rate jobs get pushed offshore. If you hike taxes on the wealthy, their wealth will mostly flee offshore with a few mouse clicks. The big multinationals like Apple have already done that. Their enormous cash war chests are offshore and removed from the ridiculous 36% Federal corporate tax rate. Even if it didn't flee, there isn't enough wealth to tax the rich and bring the bottom 30% up to a $50K median household income standard of living.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Philly
702 posts, read 536,673 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by patches403 View Post
CD won't let me rep you again, otherwise I would. You are so right about all of this. Things were easier for the "deadwood" in the past because the population was lower so less competition and there were fewer jobs needing specialized skills. The new economy has been very painful for this group and for the lazy in general.

This economy is great for people who work hard and bring something special to the table. Those who figure that out really never have a problem finding and keeping a good job; people who don't struggle.

The OP's unemployment rant is stupid, but it's still a gross oversimplification (not to mention needlessly mean spirited) to say that workers dislocated by advancing technology and offshoring trends are lazy or deadwood. I work in the financial industry, and my firm had a bunch of layoffs right before Christmas. Lots of people were let go that I worked with and can tell you in no uncertain terms were bright, hard working, productive employees. The reality is that the financial industry is more efficient than it used to be, there's lots of downward pressure on fees, and low interest rates have impacted bottom lines.


Millenials are the most educated generation of all time. Many of them graduated right into the great recession, couldn't find a job, and are now trying to compete with new college grads that don't have explain huge holes in their resumes.


I don't see any easy answers here, but I don't agree with some of the characterizations and generalizations here.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Philly
702 posts, read 536,673 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
This is not a political problem. It is a structural economic problem. I don't care who you pick for President. Mitt. McCain. Ronnie. Abe. There is no political rhetoric that is going to fix the structural economic problem. Between globalization and automation, the bottom third of the population is no longer economically viable. They're only worth minimum wage. There's your labor participation rate problem. Anybody worth hiring already has a good job and that's why the headline U1 unemployment rate is 5% reflecting full employment.

Nothing the Republicans have proposed in the last couple of decades would help the problem. Erect a wall and deport all the illegals. That bottom 30% still isn't going to want to pick lettuce, mow lawns, or clean toilets. You can cut taxes all you want and corporations aren't going to hire those people. Going "Full Bernie" would be equally ineffective. If you hike the minimum wage to $25.00/hour, it just increases the rate of automation and increases the rate jobs get pushed offshore. If you hike taxes on the wealthy, their wealth will mostly flee offshore with a few mouse clicks. The big multinationals like Apple have already done that. Their enormous cash war chests are offshore and removed from the ridiculous 36% Federal corporate tax rate. Even if it didn't flee, there isn't enough wealth to tax the rich and bring the bottom 30% up to a $50K median household income standard of living.

It's partly our fault as a culture for mocking what should be legitimate jobs. Should we be surprised when we use "burger flipper" as a disparaging term, that people then don't want to get a fast food job?


Ultimately, we will have to find political solutions to what I agree are mostly structural economic problems.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:46 PM
 
1,054 posts, read 1,418,427 times
Reputation: 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack2000 View Post
The OP's unemployment rant is stupid, but it's still a gross oversimplification (not to mention needlessly mean spirited) to say that workers dislocated by advancing technology and offshoring trends are lazy or deadwood. I work in the financial industry, and my firm had a bunch of layoffs right before Christmas. Lots of people were let go that I worked with and can tell you in no uncertain terms were bright, hard working, productive employees. The reality is that the financial industry is more efficient than it used to be, there's lots of downward pressure on fees, and low interest rates have impacted bottom lines.


Millenials are the most educated generation of all time. Many of them graduated right into the great recession, couldn't find a job, and are now trying to compete with new college grads that don't have explain huge holes in their resumes.


I don't see any easy answers here, but I don't agree with some of the characterizations and generalizations here.
I never said bright, hard working, productive employees never get laid off. Basically what I said was that they aren't unemployed for long if they do so long as they can bring something extra to the table. I would bet any quality employees in your firm that were laid off will have new jobs soon.

The problem with the Millenials is that a college degree isn't enough in this economy. You have to bring something extra to the table besides the degree and a lot of the Millenials haven't figured that out yet. If you want to always be employed, you have to figure out how to make yourself "indispensable" in your profession. You have to always be trying to improve yourself to make yourself better than your competition, which is everyone else in your profession. This is too much work for many people and so they struggle. There are plenty of Millenials out there who aren't struggling at all because they've got the drive to succeed that so many of the deadwood and lazy lack.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,204 posts, read 19,066,460 times
Reputation: 38266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Oakwood View Post
How many people do you know who are homemakers? I don't know of anyone.

I will continue my research to find numbers for the people in the 26% who aren't in the government propaganda 5% unemployed, broken out by category. If someone else has the numbers handy, please post them here. Thanks!
about half of the women in my neighborhood are stay at home moms. Some are work from home but I'm including them in the other half.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:58 PM
 
39 posts, read 36,593 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by patches403 View Post
I never said bright, hard working, productive employees never get laid off. Basically what I said was that they aren't unemployed for long if they do so long as they can bring something extra to the table. I would bet any quality employees in your firm that were laid off will have new jobs soon.

The problem with the Millenials is that a college degree isn't enough in this economy. You have to bring something extra to the table besides the degree and a lot of the Millenials haven't figured that out yet. If you want to always be employed, you have to figure out how to make yourself "indispensable" in your profession. You have to always be trying to improve yourself to make yourself better than your competition, which is everyone else in your profession. This is too much work for many people and so they struggle. There are plenty of Millenials out there who aren't struggling at all because they've got the drive to succeed that so many of the deadwood and lazy lack.

So, in other words, the above average people either have a job, or if they get laid off, can find another job easily. The below average people can just get lost.

The below average people used to work on the farm or in a factory. Since illegals or machines work the farms, and factories have moved overseas, what are we supposed to do with the below average people? We can't afford to put all of them on welfare.

I recommend deporting all illegals and put a tariff on imported goods. The very low skilled can work on farms and the lower skilled can work in factories. Let's make "Made in America" a goal and reduce the U6 rate to 5%.

The fact that the U6 rate is DOUBLE that of the U3 rate is disturbing.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,232 posts, read 2,103,800 times
Reputation: 1910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Oakwood View Post
So, in other words, the above average people either have a job, or if they get laid off, can find another job easily. The below average people can just get lost.

The below average people used to work on the farm or in a factory. Since illegals or machines work the farms, and factories have moved overseas, what are we supposed to do with the below average people? We can't afford to put all of them on welfare.

I recommend deporting all illegals and put a tariff on imported goods. The very low skilled can work on farms and the lower skilled can work in factories. Let's make "Made in America" a goal and reduce the U6 rate to 5%.

The fact that the U6 rate is DOUBLE that of the U3 rate is disturbing.
The U6 rate is traditionally 75% higher than the U3 rate. With our much improved economy I bet the U6 will make gains on the U3 this year.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Philly
702 posts, read 536,673 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by patches403 View Post
I never said bright, hard working, productive employees never get laid off. Basically what I said was that they aren't unemployed for long if they do so long as they can bring something extra to the table. I would bet any quality employees in your firm that were laid off will have new jobs soon.

The problem with the Millenials is that a college degree isn't enough in this economy. You have to bring something extra to the table besides the degree and a lot of the Millenials haven't figured that out yet. If you want to always be employed, you have to figure out how to make yourself "indispensable" in your profession. You have to always be trying to improve yourself to make yourself better than your competition, which is everyone else in your profession. This is too much work for many people and so they struggle. There are plenty of Millenials out there who aren't struggling at all because they've got the drive to succeed that so many of the deadwood and lazy lack.
In the long run, the most productive, smartest, hardest working employees will probably be the ones that keep jobs. But we don't live in Lake Wobegon, and not everyone can be above average. Millenials are no less and no more capable than any other generation, and to hang the blame on them is a lazy and unhelpful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Oakwood View Post
So, in other words, the above average people either have a job, or if they get laid off, can find another job easily. The below average people can just get lost.

The below average people used to work on the farm or in a factory. Since illegals or machines work the farms, and factories have moved overseas, what are we supposed to do with the below average people? We can't afford to put all of them on welfare.

I recommend deporting all illegals and put a tariff on imported goods. The very low skilled can work on farms and the lower skilled can work in factories. Let's make "Made in America" a goal and reduce the U6 rate to 5%.

The fact that the U6 rate is DOUBLE that of the U3 rate is disturbing.

If you got rid of all 11 million "illegal people" (a substantial chunk of which are children or students and do not compete for jobs.) and slapped tariffs on all imported good (inviting retaliatory tariffs) none of the issues we're facing would be solved. Farmers represent less than 1% of US wage and salary workers, manufacturing has been highly automated and cannot provide huge numbers of jobs.


Difficult problems usually can't be solved with Trump Rage. Sorry.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:25 PM
 
658 posts, read 1,140,047 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happiness-is-close View Post
The U6 rate is traditionally 75% higher than the U3 rate. With our much improved economy I bet the U6 will make gains on the U3 this year.

To be more accurate, per the data from BLS going back to 1994
the average ratios of U6 to U3 is 1.79 with a standard deviation of 0.08
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