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Old 02-11-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
Reputation: 2202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Oh, get a grip!!! All you do is babble about "Bubbles and Crashes".

You want to see "Bubbles and Crashes"? Check out the "Bubbles and Crashes" of the 19th century when there was no evil "Fed":
1819
1837
1856
1873
1893
1909
Every 15 to 20 years there was a crash equivalent to the Great Depression, albeit often somewhat shorter-lived.

The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. Since then there has been one major depression and one serious recession in 102 years. All the other recessions since then have been relatively minor, happening maybe once a decade for a couple of years. It's more than likely that a recession in 2016 or 2017 will be like the dot com recession around 2000 than anything like 2008.
Nice history work. You forgot that all the stability after the Great Depression was due to Glass-Steagall that was repealed in 1999. Since then the economy has been nothing but one Bubble, after another Bubble after another Bubble. And we'll keep having Bubbles until the Bubble Heads are permanently put out of business by bringing back Glass -Steagal, which Bernie Sanders is advocating. Sorry, the stock market gamblers will just have to go back to making a living the good ole way - by working.

Last edited by richrf; 02-11-2016 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:20 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
The way to fix the problem is to normalize rates and to let the market speculators fail as they should have 7 years ago. Allow normal capital incentives to return and allow wages to rise. The Billionaires would take a big hit on their Bubble Assets but the 99% would witness a normalization in their lives. Otherwise, the economy will remain distorted and will ultimately crash because of reckless, non-performing loans coupled with enormous wealth concentration.
The flip side of this is if we aren't going to do that we need to make the bottom whole as well as the top.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:25 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,557,851 times
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Also this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,199,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Nice history work. You forgot that all the stability after the Great Depression was due to Glass-Steagall that was repealed in 1999. Since then the economy has been nothing but one Bubble, after another Bubble after another Bubble. And we'll keep having Bubbles until the Bubble Heads are permanently put out of business by bringing back Glass -Steagal, which Bernie Sanders or advocating. Sorry, the stock market gamblers will just have to go back to making a living the good ole way - by working.
Ummm ... beginning in the 1960s, the provisions of Glass-Steagall were steadily eroded as the Federal Reserve allowed commercial banks to enter into more economic areas, so your "Bubbles and Crashes" scenario should have started long before 2008. Moreover, how would any of the provisions of Glass-Steagall have prevented the housing "bubbles" in Florida, California, Las Vegas, or Phoenix? It didn't address the entire litany of abuses in sub-prime lending nor did it address individuals draining equity from their residences to speculate in other real estate or to support unsupportable life-styles. It also didn't address the packaging and sale of sub-prime mortgages from bubble markets into "high return investments" that were marketed not only to banks but also to pension funds and other institutional investors.

Resurrecting Glass-Steagall is no more a "solution" to problems that beset the US economy than Trump's proposed wall is a solution to the illegal immigrant problem. Both offer simplistic panaceas to complex problems by doing "something" rather than what might actually address the problem.

BTW, speculative orgies predate 2008 by at least about 300+ years, as Holland experienced a frenzy of speculation in tulip bulbs (yes, those tulip bulbs that brighten gardens in the spring!) back in the 17th century!
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Ummm ... beginning in the 1960s, the provisions of Glass-Steagall were steadily eroded as the Federal Reserve allowed commercial banks to enter into more economic areas, so your "Bubbles and Crashes" scenario should have started long before 2008. Moreover, how would any of the provisions of Glass-Steagall have prevented the housing "bubbles" in Florida, California, Las Vegas, or Phoenix? It didn't address the entire litany of abuses in sub-prime lending nor did it address draining equity from main residences to speculate in other real estate or to support an unsupportable life-style. It also didn't address the packaging and sale of sub-prime mortgages from bubble markets into "high return investments" that were marketed not only to banks but also to pension funds and other institutional investors.

Resurrecting Glass-Steagall is no more a "solution" to problems that beset the US economy than Trump's proposed wall is a solution to the illegal immigrant problem. Both offer simplistic panaceas to complex problems.

BTW, speculative orgies predate 2008 by at least about 300+ years, as Holland experienced a frenzy of speculation in tulip bulbs (yes, those tulip bulbs that brighten gardens in the spring!) back in the 17th century!
Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. If you understand why Glass-Steagall was enacted in the first place you would understand why it prevented Bubbles until it was repealed. You would also understand why the Billionaire Class worked so hard to get it repealed.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:47 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. If you understand why Glass-Steagall was enacted in the first place you would understand why it prevented Bubbles until it was repealed. You would also understand why the Billionaire Class worked so hard to get it repealed.
I get a bit of it. If you take a loss when the bubble pops you don't blow it in the first place. But if you get insured against loss then you start having paper money gains and real economic losses. But it is just paper money without intrinsic value, the value is the real economic activity that makes it worth something. The FDIC can't insure against the loss of that.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
I get a bit of it. If you take a loss when the bubble pops you don't blow it in the first place. But if you get insured against loss then you start having paper money gains and real economic losses. But it is just paper money without intrinsic value, the value is the real economic activity that makes it worth something. The FDIC can't insure against the loss of that.
Glass-Steagall basically enforces prudent lending.

Without Glass-Steagall we have mindless speculation, reckless lending, and a never ending stream of fraud using taxpayer insured money. It is as Bernie Sanders says "a business model based upon fraud".

All those $trillions that the Fed printed - Poof! Gone. Sitting in some bank vaults and being converted to gold. Corruption everywhere, industry, Banks, and " governments".
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:10 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Glass-Steagall basically enforces prudent lending.

Without Glass-Steagall we have mindless speculation, reckless lending, and a never ending stream of fraud using taxpayer insured money. It is as Bernie Sanders says "a business model based upon fraud".

All those $trillions that the Fed printed - Poof! Gone. Sitting in some bank vaults and being converted to gold. Corruption everywhere, industry, Banks, and " governments".
We need Glass-Steagall back. No argument here.


But that isn't all we need.
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