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Old 04-16-2016, 05:26 PM
 
4,369 posts, read 3,721,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Actually that is exactly the point. If you cannot find a better job that means the knowledge and skills you have are not in demand...at least where you live. You can work to get the skills that are in demand and you can move to where there are jobs.
Until you end up in the Bay Area where not everyone be a ceo and so most end up living in tenements
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,567,076 times
Reputation: 22633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
How is a employer making more and more profit and giving it to themselves but not the employees who helped them make that money not stealing? You falsely assume that most of the money a company makes is theirs.
Okay I'll bite, how do the profits of a company not belong to the owners? Can you point me in the direction of the law/statute that supports this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Tell people working for pennies in other countries that them making more is stealing.
I've never claimed someone making more is stealing, so why would I go tell someone this?

You are the one claiming someone who owns a company is stealing if they don't give raises to employees when profits go up.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,567,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Thomas View Post
It's like mainframe jobs.
I was a software dev, and through entire career had an eye on the horizon and what skills I should focus energy on learning in order to maintain my marketability.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:06 PM
 
13,754 posts, read 13,308,274 times
Reputation: 26025
This is a sad discussion. Not that I disagree with any part of the general discussion, it's just depressing. The economy is in the crapper.

Raising minimum wage has driven many stores out of business. Who pays those wages? We were just discussing Taco Bell. You might have 10 employees working an 8hr day. At $15/hr that's $1200 in wages a day just in payroll. You gotta sell a lot of tacos to make payroll, overhead, taxes, insurance, upkeep on assets, etc. Or you can charge more for your food and drive away your customers. Not a great thing.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:28 PM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,572,959 times
Reputation: 16225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Sure but if a bunch of people get an education there are not enough high paying jobs for everyone and if a bunch of people move to area with good jobs there will not be jobs for all of them. When companies are making millions even billions of dollars and the worker is not seeing increases that is exploitation. No people are based on anything the employer wants to pay that is at or above min wage. Saying education and training is the solution shows you do not know how the economy works.
No, that is not exploitation, or at least not necessarily. Workers are entitled to a reasonable compensation for the value of their labor only, not to the profits the company generates. If they want the latter they need to buy the company's stock.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:46 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,022 posts, read 2,272,347 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Actually that is exactly the point. If you cannot find a better job that means the knowledge and skills you have are not in demand...at least where you live. You can work to get the skills that are in demand and you can move to where there are jobs.
Except like I have said a hundred times there are not better jobs for everyone to move up to eve if you try to move someone has to do these lower paying jobs. A bunch of people getting more skills is not gonna solve poverty.
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,643 posts, read 4,589,722 times
Reputation: 12698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Really with automation I think there is gonna be a lot less jobs available. Even if what you say is true there is gonna be more jobs but not enough for everyone to move up to and there should not be because these companies with entry level jobs still need people to work there. No companies pay based on what they want over min wage show me a list or chart of what the supply and demand for jobs are there is none. If you can not find a better job that does not mean you are not being underpaid it means that there are just not better jobs out there. You are really ignorant on how the business and economy works.
I'm creating automation jobs right now. First I need group A. I could use an app programmer, an electrical engineer, a programming engineer, a mechanical engineer, an industrial engineer, and an experienced spotter. Those jobs will pay very well...in equity at first. If it goes as planned, we will all be on the low end of the 1%'s.

Now, most people putting together a business try to find the lowest cost of everything...because, like us, money is scarce. I might be able to convince Group A that we're going to all get our spouses and us to live a Spartan lifestyle for a couple of years, but that's because we all have savings to make that an option. If we win, we're going to all win.

When their work is complete, then I have Group B to fill. I will have openings people with strong backs, and a few for people who are very organized, a few more for those that can be presentable and teach, and a few who can drive loads to different sites. For the manufacturing site, I'll need assemblers, quality testers, a quality and safety role and some admin jobs.

The strong back role has the least potential. The upward job is to supervise the other strong backs...then that's probably it.

The presenters could be groomed into sales. I want them to know and understand how the product works. I want them to see it in action and help end users. I want them to understand the impact so they can accurately convey what can and cannot be expected. I want them to see the difference between a good site and a bad one. The start wage is low because the value add is low.

Now, for the driver role, I can try and hire the lowest price idiot out there who will take packages and move them into machines. However, I'd like to pay them more and get a type of person that wants to learn about the machines and do some troubleshooting and preventative maintenance on a schedule. I'd like to give them a path forward so they will STAY and GROW with us. I want them to care that their route looks good. I want to rotate them to bigger routes and they will see other routes that have been taken care of. They have a career path.

Assembler can move to field installers. Quality testers are well positioned, but have possible opportunities with engineering. Admin is well positioned, but will grow as the company does.

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding everyone for Group A, and until then, I can't create jobs for Group B.

Now, you are correct. I will be a net destroyer of jobs. Anyplace in the industry where company is barely hanging on, not investing in improvement and putting out a poor quality product is going to get slaughtered. The places that provide good quality product are going to see their volumes increase, allowing for growth. I don't see it as destroying jobs as much as destroying bad jobs, and the companies that require underpaid labor to save their existence.

That frees those people up to go help other companies doing something good. Companies barely hanging on, don't develop their employees, because they have no use for developed employees. Frankly, they don't deserve to keep people trapped in a dead end occupation.

The key is to make yourself easier to program than a computer and keep a broader skill set.

I heard a quote somewhere that was something like "The CFO fears developing their employees because they might leave, whereas the CEO fears not developing their employees because they might stay." I wish you could somehow regulate development, but you can't. Which is too bad because the innovation is constant. You may as well try and stop the Earth from spinning on an axis if you want to stop innovation. You need to manage to a constantly changing world. A world where suddenly my product has destroyed some jobs, and created others, but also created a backbone for further development still of things that can't be done today. Two generations from now we'll fly around in self propelled Jetson mobiles with hologrammed calls from our partner offices in Mars. Two generations ago, people were getting their first cars and their first land telephone lines. The legions of switchboard operators are now gone, but how many more jobs have opened up since then? Would you really be happy pulling one plug and putting it into another hole all day, every day for the rest of your life?

Life is good my friend. The automation you need to stop, is the defensiveness. Don't think what it has done to you, but what it can do for you. Then grab it. You can make anything....anything you think you want to make, and sell it to me now over the internet, send it via FedEx, and get paid by taking a few numbers of one of my cards. It's the new water...dive in and start paddling.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,567,076 times
Reputation: 22633
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
It's the new water...dive in and start paddling.
Woah now you're talking crazy, this plan sounds like a lot more effort than whining that things are impossible/unfair and that employers who don't give me raises are stealing from me.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:20 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,108,628 times
Reputation: 18603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perma Bear View Post
Until you end up in the Bay Area where not everyone be a ceo and so most end up living in tenements
My daughter and her boyfriend moved to the Bay area 5 years ago. They bought a condo 2 years ago and sold it a few months ago for a hefty profit. They have paid off their student loans and are getting married. They are definitely not living in a tenement. The Bay area is a great place to live even if housing is expensive. If it doesn't suit you why not leave?
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:23 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,108,628 times
Reputation: 18603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Except like I have said a hundred times there are not better jobs for everyone to move up to eve if you try to move someone has to do these lower paying jobs. A bunch of people getting more skills is not gonna solve poverty.
If you want to get ahead in life you could invest just a fraction of the time you spend complaining. There are plenty of great careers and great places to live. You may just have picked one or both that do not suit you.
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