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First I know that in spite of the "real" income charts, we have see huge increases in middle class standards of living over the past several decades. I think the notion that "real" salaries are sliding is just statistical nonsense.
Blinders. You need to get out to places you don't normally visit.
If you are really that old you should be able to remember the times when pretty much anybody could earn enough money doing anything to buy a house, support a family, and send their kids to college.
If you were born in around 1960, you grew up and got married, and it took TWO breadwinners to support a family at the same level. But you didn't quite have the standard of living of your parents: you had to pay a ton of income to taxes (since two wage-earners in a family defines you as "rich" by IRS). And you both had to pay for the college education that got you to the job starting line (like a free high school education did for your parents). Then you both worked at least 50% more hours than your parents did at their full time jobs--after all, employers now have all the power, just like labor did in your parent's day.
This is where I stand, educated and double income so we got nailed with taxes every year. Marriage penalty, I guess I was supposed to be a baby maker and stay home.
Blinders. You need to get out to places you don't normally visit.
.....
I travel a high percentage of the year and have for many years....north, south, east and west. I have seen the absolute worst and the best. The dead rust belt cities. Dead cotton and tobacco dependent communities. The death and rebirth of small town Midwestern manufacturing towns. The booming Bay Area waiting for the next big one. Weirdo Portland. The population explosion of the Salt Lake valley. The dying Midwestern farm towns. Out of the way little towns all across the country as well as the big cities. I regularly travel between both coasts and stop and visit friends and relatives. I have traveled tens of thousands of miles, met thousands of people and visited many hundreds of cities and towns. I even spent some time in your State this year....loved, loved the O'Keeffe museum. I am only a few States short of having visited all mainland States in the past few years. This year I even visited Hawaii...not the resort towns but the 3rd world part of Hawaii still fighting for the resurrection of the Kingdom. The part that has almost no economy because the sugar cane industry died years ago. The part that never even wanted the cane or any other industry.
Five years ago traveling was very sad. Lots and lots of closed businesses, houses for sale, people out of work. I met people living in their cars because they left their families behind and were traveling looking for work. There has been a very noticeable improvement almost everywhere.
Sorry but if you want to see the US and/or are looking for career advancement, you might yourself try getting out of Ruidoso.
Sorry but if you want to see the US and/or are looking for career advancement, you might yourself try getting out of Ruidoso.
What gave you the impression I was looking for anything? This certainly isn't about me.
So after all that, what are you using for your assertion that the stats are BS, and there has been a huge increase in living standard? So far the only thing you have offered is that your income has risen, and even then the rise has been typical for someone who advances in a career.
I didn't mean "travel". I mean getting to know what life is really like for people who aren't in your normal socio-economic sphere.
What gave you the impression I was looking for anything? This certainly isn't about me.
So after all that, what are you using for your assertion that the stats are BS, and there has been a huge increase in living standard? So far the only thing you have offered is that your income has risen, and even then the rise has been typical for someone who advances in a career.
I didn't mean "travel". I mean getting to know what life is really like for people who aren't in your normal socio-economic sphere.
I see no reason for me to repeat myself again and again. You want to maintain your opinion and I have seen the changes in lifestyle over the decades.
Anyway this thread is really not about comparing the present economy with the past. You may want to turn it into one of your endless doom and gloom rants, but as far as I am concerned this thread is about the extremely low level of educational achievement of the vast majority of our population. Of that there is no doubt. For any survey and any subject matter, American high school seniors rank below almost every 1st or 2nd world country. We are seeing the end of many low skilled jobs due to globalization, automation, economies of scale and a host of other reasons. The jobs of the future will require more highly skilled and educated workers. Unless something changes a growing percentage of workers are likely to find the future tough. According to your take, the salaries and jobs have already tanked. Well, as they say, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Blinders. You need to get out to places you don't normally visit.
If you are really that old you should be able to remember the times when pretty much anybody could earn enough money doing anything to buy a house, support a family, and send their kids to college.
You disagree with someone, so hey time to make some assumptions about their life experience without knowing anything about them.
No matter how many years you worked for the same prosperous corporation, neither of you got the pensions your parents had to retire on. No, retirement savings were now YOUR problem--except that anything you saved for retirement did NOT get the "magic of compound interest" that was supposed to offset the loss of pensions (Big Government over-spending and borrowing means Zero Interest rates arrived just when you started to save, and must continue until long after you die).
This makes no sense. You were talking about someone born in the 60s, and have now concluded they must have started saving for retirement when zero interest rates hit. So they started saving for retirement at middle age, and their only option is a savings account? They couldn't possibly have enjoyed the massive runup in the stock market since the early 90s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog
You can always find misleading statistics that make it look like we still have a prosperous Middle Class and thriving working class
Given how you just framed retirement savings opportunities for someone born in the 60s, I find it quite ironic you are talking about anything being misleading.
You may want to turn it into one of your endless doom and gloom rants... We are seeing the end of many low skilled jobs due to globalization, automation, economies of scale and a host of other reasons... Unless something changes a growing percentage of workers are likely to find the future tough. According to your take, the salaries and jobs have already tanked. Well, as they say, you ain't seen nothing yet.
You disagree with someone, so hey time to make some assumptions about their life experience without knowing anything about them.
When someone claims that reality is bogus, it's a sure bet that they are out of touch, in denial, etc.
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