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They unified empire lasted until 476, but the empire divided and the eastern empire lasted until the 1400's. In reality Rome did not fall...it transformed.
Doing this will hurt them just as much as it will hurt us. China cannot dump all their dollar holdings all at once, as soon as they start to dump their holdings then the dollar will drop dramatically. If the dollar drop the value of their holdings drops with it.
Is this a joke? Slightly? There is really very little that is communist in China, it is communist in name only. It really doesn't matter what American has characterized China as, what matters is what China actually is. I haven't meant a single person from China that considers China a communist country, its a socialism republic. Of course they still have a "Communist party" but its just a name.
Anyhow, Deng Xiaoping was rather brilliant and he changed China dramatically, to call the changes he started "slight" is mind boggling.
Not really. We have all sorts of trade with Russia now, in fact I ship things to Russia all the time. The US does not do business with Cuba because the current Cuban government nationalized assets that were owned by American business, that is they stole billions of dollars worth of assets. North Korea...err goes without saying.
Yes yes...big bad China. I get a kick out of the "China is going to be a super power and America is going to fall" views. The economy in the US has problems, there is no doubt about that. But, China's economy is also having problems, one of those problems is how much dollar holdings they have! As I said above, they just can't dump them. Although China's exports were an asset they are becoming a problem. They are only able to export so much because the Chinese are living well below their means, this includes personal purchases but also things like environmental protections. Their export economy is costing them their environment. Regardless, the US is not the country that should be worried about China....I think there are two near by islands that should be much more concerned.
Someone's listening to Kudlow & Company one too many times
We are a burden that China's citizens bear. They are suppressing their own purchasing power so that we may indulge ourselves. The economist just posted an article on their belief that China will get along just fine without us. Additionally, two superstars, Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff believe that China's decoupling from the US will cause a BOOM in their own standard of living, when they no longer have to peg their currency against ours and can ship their products to Eastern Europe, Australia, or just consume and enjoy them theirselves. They also will have a stronger currency and 35% savings rate to blow on consumer goods. They're going to enjoy the tennis shoes, toys, and iPods we won't be getting anymore.
I question the military superpower argument, but economically, you better believe it we will reluctantly hand the torch to the Chinese. It will not matter on the military front, as we will be reluctant to war with them directly as the US citizens would riot and practically burn the white house to the ground (again). Slight exaggeration, but can you imagine the chaos from disgruntled citizens who no longer have access to any real form of credit and goods are rationed being told that they have to sacrifice further?
Incidentally, post a thread on the internet within the chinese borders on how much you despise Hu's leadership of the country, see how long it takes before you "disappear". This particular facet of communism exists, as well as weaker property rights than we have.
The world is going to be very surprised to see how China moves merrilly along without us, albeit after a very brief withdrawl period.
Well said! If you spend a little bit time in china instead of reading those newspapers here, you will have to agree with Humannoid. There is really not much differrence from the people's daily life in china to those of us here except they save 35% of their income and we have -1%.
[quote=Humanoid;2895144]
Is this a joke? Slightly? There is really very little that is communist in China, it is communist in name only. It really doesn't matter what American has characterized China as, what matters is what China actually is. I haven't meant a single person from China that considers China a communist country, its a socialism republic. Of course they still have a "Communist party" but its just a name.
I am sorry but I had 8 Chinese roommates when I was in college and they make it clear that they use America to get there education to go back to china to make it a stronger country. They also joke about how America does not recognize how much control they are loosing. The reality is America business need china to survive. That is why Most of the big companies like 3m, Ge, Caterpillar and Hp have been doing well. Over 50% of there business has been over seas helping other countries to grow. But if an American wants to buy stock in a Chinese company they can't the Chinese Government will not allow it. China has done things to America to make it clear they are not allies. Spying, shooting down planes, not allowing our navy to dock when there were nasty storms.
I mean Boone Pickens(bp capital) was on cnbc today stating he has a problem that America has to spend 500 billion dollars a year for foreign oil. That is equivalent to 4% of GDP given a way to other countries and some of those countries are enemies.
China middle class will grow and income will rise for them while America will shrink to be market competitive.
I'll keep it simple becasue I refuse to read long winded posts. We can agree that economies go up and down. We are down. If youthink we are down now, what happens if we start spending borrowed money from China on these social programs the Dems want? Can the Dems fix it? Just curious as i am independant right now.
Someone's listening to Kudlow & Company one too many times
We are a burden that China's citizens bear. They are suppressing their own purchasing power so that we may indulge ourselves. The economist just posted an article on their belief that China will get along just fine without us. Additionally, two superstars, Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff believe that China's decoupling from the US will cause a BOOM in their own standard of living, when they no longer have to peg their currency against ours and can ship their products to Eastern Europe, Australia, or just consume and enjoy them theirselves. They also will have a stronger currency and 35% savings rate to blow on consumer goods. They're going to enjoy the tennis shoes, toys, and iPods we won't be getting anymore.
I question the military superpower argument, but economically, you better believe it we will reluctantly hand the torch to the Chinese. It will not matter on the military front, as we will be reluctant to war with them directly as the US citizens would riot and practically burn the white house to the ground (again). Slight exaggeration, but can you imagine the chaos from disgruntled citizens who no longer have access to any real form of credit and goods are rationed being told that they have to sacrifice further?
Incidentally, post a thread on the internet within the chinese borders on how much you despise Hu's leadership of the country, see how long it takes before you "disappear". This particular facet of communism exists, as well as weaker property rights than we have.
The world is going to be very surprised to see how China moves merrilly along without us, albeit after a very brief withdrawl period.
You are right. Economists are saying china will continue to grow at 10% for the next 10 years and by 2020 -2030 they will be #1 for GDP. The EU currently is at the same GDP as America. China wants to raise interest rates to slow down their economy. China wants to convert the US dollars to euros. They have already unloaded about 200 billion dollars. If they hold on to our currency they will loose more money than selling it. OPEC is already working on plans to convert to the Euro. It is not just china that is growing it is also India. But yes they can slow down by US consumer but again it only makes up about 7-10% of there GDP. If Americans slow down there spending they still rely on China for products so they will still win. America got out of their depression in the 1930's by manufacturing and American investments (some from UK). I do not see Consumerism getting us out of our problem we will just continue to see bubbles because of this problem. That is why they are promoting Go Green. That will be the next bubble.
I'll keep it simple becasue I refuse to read long winded posts. We can agree that economies go up and down. We are down. If youthink we are down now, what happens if we start spending borrowed money from China on these social programs the Dems want? Can the Dems fix it? Just curious as i am independant right now.
Awesome question. The democrats are typically pro social issues. History has told us after every major war pull out the country goes in to a recession. What would happen if they pull out of Iraq? Will it make a recession turn to a depression? If so do they continue to stay in Iraq and then go after Iran? I do not see the Dem winning the election but to go back to your question the Democrats when in office the Middle class typically improves and the economy runs better than under republicans. If the democrats take away the bush tax cuts it will improve the national debt which in turn makes the dollar stronger. We need to work on social issue because in the past 12-15 years America has not focused on pro-middle class growth especially in wage growth. If we grow the middle class consumerism will work.
[quote=meimei88;2896365]Well said! If you spend a little bit time in china instead of reading those newspapers here, you will have to agree with Humannoid. There is really not much differrence from the people's daily life in china to those of us here except they save 35% of their income and we have -1%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid
Is this a joke? Slightly? There is really very little that is communist in China, it is communist in name only. It really doesn't matter what American has characterized China as, what matters is what China actually is. I haven't meant a single person from China that considers China a communist country, its a socialism republic. Of course they still have a "Communist party" but its just a name.
I do not have a problem with communism I just find interesting that this country will do business with what they classified as communist state. You can not state that is because China is not a threat. They are a very real threat because they do not have open arms to america.
I believe that america is teaching the public to believe that china is no longer Communist. It is common for america to do this because it involves self interest.
From PBS:
Although China is still communist, everyday life for Chinese citizens is a lot like life in the U.S. People communicate by e-mails, faxes, and cell phones. For years the government owned most of the factories, land and industry, but that’s changing. Private businesses are expanding. And there’s plenty of American influence in entertainment and culture. The capital city of Bejing has more than 300 Kentucky Fried Chicken fast food restaurants.
But the government still controls society in some important ways. The government controls the newspapers, TV and radio. The protesters who recently marched against large international banking organizations in Seattle and Washington, DC would have been arrested in China. People serve long prison sentences for speaking out against the government.
But the government still controls society in some important ways. The government controls the newspapers, TV and radio.
That has nothing to do with whether China is a communist state or not. Communism is an economic theory not a political one, China is not a democracy there is no question about that. But its also not a communist state anywhere, its capitalist.
Quote:
This particular facet of communism exists
That isn't a facet of communism...that is a facet of a draconian oligarchic government. The two are not the same.
Quote:
They also joke about how America does not recognize how much control they are loosing.
The joke is on them, they are bringing America to China. Governments are temporary its the ideas that matter. China is become more and more like America (or Anglo-Saxon) every day. Long live Rome = )
Quote:
Additionally, two superstars, Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff believe that China's decoupling from the US
These guys are the David Lereah of the emerging market bubbles. There arguments are weak or non-existent. Regardless, China is not going to be able to quickly change their consumers this takes time and the current state of affairs is problematic. A savings rate that is too high is just as negative as one that is too low. Anyhow, the decoupling ideas are...err "cute". The folks involved in bubbles always try to justify the bubble by suggesting that "things are different now".
Skewed government data does not properly reflect current savings rate,if 401(k),403(b) and SEP IRA's were counted toward the savings rate it would be more along the 6% line,even higher than historic norms.Would you rather put money away pre tax,or after?Just another gov't stat that hasn't been updated since the age of the dinosaur!
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