U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2018, 04:30 PM
 
5,610 posts, read 4,219,894 times
Reputation: 10582

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53 View Post
this is something the Trumpsters don't get when they try to say how the middle class benefits from GOP policy too, that those who derive wealth from assets live a very different existence than those who do so through income.
This has nothing to do with Trump, the GOP, or politics. Everyone needs to manage expenses and income so they can save. We need to do that starting at an early age. My parents taught me to save some of my earnings. I had a bank account as a small child. Of course there was no real money there but it was done as a lesson.


Everyone is free to do as they want but those with a lick of sense can see the value of saving and of compounding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,109 posts, read 1,055,720 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I've never understood the obsession with how well the top X% was doing.
Because historically, that concentrated wealth comes at the expense of everyone below them. Perhaps not in a zero-sum, pizza way, but it generally means that profits are going into 1%'er investments, not worker compensation or tax revenue.

Economics is not zero-sum, but expanding wealth is not equally distributed, at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,109 posts, read 1,055,720 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Everyone is free to do as they want but those with a lick of sense can see the value of saving and of compounding.
Yes, everyone is free do as they want except that THEY ARE CONTINUALLY BEING SCREAMED AT TO SPEND SPEND SPEND, BUY BUY BUY, ACQUIRE ACQUIRE ACQUIRE... and you can bwitch about a tsunami all you want and it will still wash you away.

And what's the paltry amount of savings, if universal, that creates economic havoc? That is, if all wage-earners started saving X percent, what X causes major disruptions in economic growth and stability? I've heard numbers as low as 5%. If consumers saved 10% of their income, it would be disastrous.

Saving is preached at everyone but really the practice of a semi-elite tier... and a considerable minority.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 05:22 PM
 
5,610 posts, read 4,219,894 times
Reputation: 10582
So those without a lick of sense spend in excess due to advertising? I guess that would be a good example of what I mean by not having a lick of sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 06:26 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,237,909 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
So those without a lick of sense spend in excess due to advertising? I guess that would be a good example of what I mean by not having a lick of sense.
These companies wouldn't dump millions and billions into marketing and advertising if it didn't work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,109 posts, read 1,055,720 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
So those without a lick of sense spend in excess due to advertising? I guess that would be a good example of what I mean by not having a lick of sense.
Why yes, of course. Only stupid people buy things because of marketing pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
These companies wouldn't dump millions and billions into marketing and advertising if it didn't work.
True, as long as you understand that advertising is pretty much the least part of marketing, and not really the part to be concerned about. It's as much a distractor as anything else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 07:50 PM
 
24,760 posts, read 26,848,973 times
Reputation: 22799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
And what's the paltry amount of savings, if universal, that creates economic havoc? That is, if all wage-earners started saving X percent, what X causes major disruptions in economic growth and stability? I've heard numbers as low as 5%. If consumers saved 10% of their income, it would be disastrous.
Total BS. The real disaster is when people run up debts they can't pay because they're living so close to the edge.

A gradual increase of the savings rate from the current low 3% up to 10% would not hurt the economy if it happened in a 3-5 year time frame. In fact, a 10% savings rate WAS THE NORM for most of the period from 1950-1990. Even in the early 1990s, the savings rate hit the high single digits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 08:00 PM
 
29,465 posts, read 33,740,314 times
Reputation: 11104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
that is interesting. id be interested in seeing data on how the strong market has impacted the financial health of pension plans.
It varies from plan to plan or state to state and local to local depending on the source of the pension fund. Pension funds usually have annual years that start in July or January. I am familiar with a few and the market the last 8 years has had a overall positive impact. Not every year has been good. 2016 was not.

It varies with how the investments are managed and by who. Percent funded has gone up but often not as dramatic as one might expect. It is a slow climb from being 62% fully funded to 90%. Increases in the number of pensioners can outstrip gains from investments.

http://www.pionline.com/article/2018...8211-3-reports

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1E62X0

Quote:
The funded status of 100 of the largest U.S. public pension plans grew by $36 billion in third quarter of 2017, boosted by strong equity returns, according to a report released on Tuesday by consulting services company Milliman.
The funded ratio of the plans climbed to 71.6 percent as of Sept. 30, up from 70.7 percent at the end of June, the report said. The plans saw an aggregate investment return of 2.97 percent between July 1 and Sept. 30.
The S&P 500 index over the same period rose 3.96 percent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 08:02 PM
 
29,465 posts, read 33,740,314 times
Reputation: 11104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Total BS. The real disaster is when people run up debts they can't pay because they're living so close to the edge.

A gradual increase of the savings rate from the current low 3% up to 10% would not hurt the economy if it happened in a 3-5 year time frame. In fact, a 10% savings rate WAS THE NORM for most of the period from 1950-1990. Even in the early 1990s, the savings rate hit the high single digits.
In the absence of debt many Americans could increase both savings and spending.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2018, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,109 posts, read 1,055,720 times
Reputation: 3978
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Total BS. The real disaster is when people run up debts they can't pay because they're living so close to the edge.

A gradual increase of the savings rate from the current low 3% up to 10% would not hurt the economy if it happened in a 3-5 year time frame. In fact, a 10% savings rate WAS THE NORM for most of the period from 1950-1990. Even in the early 1990s, the savings rate hit the high single digits.
We've lived with high consumer debt for a long time. It's what our economy is built on - and that's the problem.

Most economists see no way for consumer spending to drop 5-10% (which includes that amount going into savings) and sustain the current economic model. That's the reason personal savings have a lot of cheerleaders but no real proponents or supporters.

It is not 1950, 1990 or any year in between any more. We're thirty years of economic change past that point, and it's really time for everyone from Hahvahd econ majors to barstool pundits to our dear leader to realize that the first half of that was an anomalous era that's not coming back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top