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Old 01-07-2017, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Wayne,NJ
1,352 posts, read 1,520,548 times
Reputation: 1833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
No.

The two main contributors that wiped out the 2000 surplus and sent us into historic debt:

**The large tax cuts during the Bush Administration, and then the extension of them in 2010. (They were made permanent in 2012 for SOME people, but reverted for the rest.) The cuts were passed w/o a way to pay for them (there isn't a way to pay for such large tax cuts, anyway), so this was merely a cut in income for the country.

**The Iraq and Afghanistan wars (a huge spending increase).

Our country's budget isn't large, for the size of our country, so budget cuts wouldn't make that much difference in paying for the tax cuts/the deficit.

So there was a big decrease in revenue and soon thereafter a large increase in spending on two wars.

Estimates are that the tax cuts cost the country 1.8 Trillion Dollars, plus the large interest we would've earned on that. I also read that they reduced our revenue by about 1/3 of the GDP for just the first few years.

I've read that the continued revenue loss on the remaining tax cuts that were made permanent has added about $3.5 Trillion Dollars to the debt, since 2010.

The bailouts to AIG and others were in the BILLIONS, not TRILLIONS. On top of that, our country made a PROFIT on the AIG bailout by selling AIG stock (which was made possible by the bailout protecting the stock). (If we hadn't bailed them out, the cost to the country would have been far greater, as the financial sector would have collapsed.)

So you can see by just the basic numbers that the bailouts would not have had nearly as great an impact on our deficit as huge tax cuts and increased massive spending that accompanies wars.

The GM bailout was repaid, so it didn't cost us, ultimately, and saved us a lot of money by saving the company, the jobs, the services that service the industry, etc.
Iceland let their "too big to fail banks fail", this resulted in a depression from 2008 through 2010. In 2011 the country has been on a recovery. They also locked up some of the bankers. (Instead of the banks giving the bankers bonuses like in the US).
Of course the huge tax cuts, (trickle not down economics) and the war in Iraq built on lies has probably been the biggest cost.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:43 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,988,477 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
The debt comes primarily from entitlements (as that is the largest part of the budget)...
The debt related to SS and Medicare as examples of entitlements comes from investing the CASH SURPLUSES that are held by those programs in US Treasury securities. The rest of the debt comes primarily from our historically low levels of taxation, from past wars and economic downturns, and from the role that US dollars play in international finance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
...but it is hard to pin down as funds disbursed with limited management and questionable reporting.
The federal government publishes massive disclosures of its operations. If people somehow cannot find or understand it all, that would be a different sort of problem.
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:04 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,988,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
We won't be able to know, unless the federal reserve is audited.
The Fed and the 12 regional banks are all subject to various levels of annual audit and review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
It is likely the federal reserve created trillions of dollars off the books without Congress or the Presidents approval.
Congress created the Fed to be politically independent in its conduct of monetary policy. It does not need "special permission" to expand or contract the money supply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
The meltdown came as the result of government coercing banks to make bad loans...
There has never been any law, rule, policy, or court decision requiring any lender to extend credit to any borrower who was not fully qualified for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
...and banks desperately wanting to find a way to unload them.
Banks recapitalize by selling off all or part of their loan portfolios. This is garden variety finance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
The derivative market was created as a venue for banks to keep the federal government happy with them as well as share holders.
Derivatives have actually been around for millennia. If you currently have a service contract on a car or on an appliance in your home, you are a player in the derivatives market.
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:08 AM
 
2,752 posts, read 2,561,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
No.


The GM bailout was repaid, so it didn't cost us, ultimately, and saved us a lot of money by saving the company, the jobs, the services that service the industry, etc.
That's so cute that you believe that when In reality we lost over 11 BILLION on the GM Bail-out.
Here is a quote from the us inspector general at the time.

"The loss now is recorded as $11.2 billion, up from $10.3 billion. A Treasury Department auditor said the government had written off on March 20 an $826-million "administrative claim" tied to the bailout and not included in the initial estimate.
The figure surfaced in a report by the Office of the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), which was charged with overseeing the federal government's economic stimulus program. The money for GM came from that program".


Taxpayers' loss on GM bailout gets bigger
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:17 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,988,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrviking View Post
That's so cute that you believe that when In reality we lost over 11 BILLION on the GM Bail-out.
Recheck your data. Final position on the auto bailout was a loss of $9.2 billion. Final data on TARP as a whole was a gain of $15.3 billion.

>>> No links. Google it yourself. <<<
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:23 AM
 
2,752 posts, read 2,561,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Recheck your data. Final position on the auto bailout was a loss of $9.2 billion. Final data on TARP as a whole was a gain of $15.3 billion.

>>> No links. Google it yourself. <<<
Last I checked 9.2 Billion loss is still a cost to the taxpayers.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:08 AM
 
3,754 posts, read 4,180,560 times
Reputation: 7773
As far as the debt goes, the majority of it has to do with the increased spending from the Bush administration for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Funny thing about war time spending... it isn't factored into the annual budgets for the branches of the military. It isn't like they have a set amount of money and ammunition, or vehicles to be deployed. If the government wants more, they buy more. You'll never hear our country say that we have to pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan because we have exceeded our military budget and can't afford to buy any more bullets, so it's time to pack up.

$5 TRILLION.

Report: Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cost almost $5 trillion so far

Anything else mentioned regarding the debt is just a drop in the bucket.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:55 AM
 
9,863 posts, read 14,010,185 times
Reputation: 21673
Quote:
Originally Posted by hound 109 View Post

I believe (& or) suspect that a lot of the 10 Trillion dollar bump (over the last 8 years) was due to the buyout (or help, or modification) of AGI - the PMI firm (back in 2008 or 2009) and also to help or bail out Fanny/Freddy, & to provide "modifications" for Mortgage Holders that were underwater (say from 2008-2015).
As of 12/31/2016

Fannie Mae:

Received from Fed Gov't: $116B
Returned to Fed Gov't: $154B
Fed Gov't profit: $38 Billion

Freddie Mac:

Received from Fed Gov't: $71B
Returned to Fed Gov't: $101B
Fed Gov't Profit: $30 Billion


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Old 01-08-2017, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
12,996 posts, read 7,368,577 times
Reputation: 9722
fannie and freddie were bought out by the USTreasury in a forced conservatoryship (Nationalized in Sept 2008).
IIRC, their bonds became nearly worthless when people and other bond holders realized that the underlying mortgages were failing because of poor and fraudulent underwriting by everyone involved. Freddy and Fanny went from AA rated to C rating in days (do not rely on rating agencies since they offer only "opinions" although mandated by Law to provide ratings).
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,525,955 times
Reputation: 28457
Check out our military spending. There you will see how disproportionate their budget is compared to everything else. We had wars/conflicts during that time. None of that was free. Far from it!
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