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Old 01-12-2017, 08:25 AM
 
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Regarding international trade, refer to Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article
or to
USA goods could be more price competitive

Regarding commerce between jurisdictions within the United States:
Opponents of the federal minimum rate laws, (i.e. Fair Labor Standards Act) argue due to the differences between states’ economies, the federal minimum wage rate is a hardship upon states where lesser prices prevail.
Proponents of the laws argue due to those differences, an insufficient federal minimum wage rate is a hardship upon states where all but the lowest prices prevail and economies of the entire United States suffer due to the extent that our federal minimum wage rate is greatly insufficient.

Regarding States’ enacted higher minimum rates within their own jurisdictions, the effectiveness and sustainability of their states’ rates are significantly dependent upon the purchasing power of the Federal Minimum Wage rate and how effectively it’s enforced.

Throughout the history of all nations’ economies, (when there’s been no scarcity of labor), wage rates have been subject to the “race to the bottom”.
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
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It is my understanding that many companies tend to hire at MW, to see if the new hire can figure out how to get to work on time. Then as the new hire gains expertise in his/her position they have greater value so they will get pay raises.

Personally I am a military retiree. It has been decades since the last time that I was in the civilian labor force. I have watched as our children have been out there. With each of our children, they started working at MW, then as their worth increased so their wages increased.

In the last few months I have had a group of contractors doing work for me. I have been on-site watching the work progress and I have spoken with their workers. I am curious about how the new laws increasing the MW here will effect these contractors. It seems that the effect will be minimal since it is only the new hires that get paid MW.
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Old 01-13-2017, 02:29 PM
 
2,232 posts, read 4,378,008 times
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There shouldn't be a Federal minimum wage at all.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:28 PM
 
9,284 posts, read 4,739,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
There shouldn't be a Federal minimum wage at all.
I agree it should be zero.
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Old 01-14-2017, 07:04 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 1,983,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
It is my understanding that many companies tend to hire at MW, to see if the new hire can figure out how to get to work on time. Then as the new hire gains expertise in his/her position they have greater value so they will get pay raises.

Personally I am a military retiree. It has been decades since the last time that I was in the civilian labor force. I have watched as our children have been out there. With each of our children, they started working at MW, then as their worth increased so their wages increased.

In the last few months I have had a group of contractors doing work for me. I have been on-site watching the work progress and I have spoken with their workers. I am curious about how the new laws increasing the MW here will effect these contractors. It seems that the effect will be minimal since it is only the new hires that get paid MW.
Not around here.

Companies have figured out ALL they HAVE to pay IS: MINIMUM WAGE.
Regardless of age, experience or wisdom.

IF and WHEN an employee "becomes to expensive"...IE: $3.00/hr above minimum wage, suddenly that employee has no value, merit or worth, and they will use any excuse to terminate OR will make it so unbearable so as to force the employee to quit to avoid the daily hassles. AND if and when the state minimum wage goes up, if your current wage contains a raise over minimum, you lose it and go right back to the new minimum wage.

AND one will start back at minimum wage regardless of where they go around here in the same field.

For example: MOH {My Other Half} re-entered the workforce 11 years ago. Found a job as a grocery store clerk, then became cashier cashier [I will grant you minimum wage position, BUT:} MPH leaves and is EARLY for work always, and DUe to MOH's speed and accuracy, excellent "customer reviews" and periodic raises, MOH was finally told "you're at the ceiling for the position, on raises issued by corporate will be granted to you."
MOH was at that magical $3.00 over minimum, actually $3.25 over state minimum {higher than the fed}. Then suddenly, because MOH was :too expensive", was written up for stupid things like being one minute EARLY on a punch-in, when the MANAGER REQUESTED MOH to punch in, Being 1 minute to long for break when A manager refused to let MOH punch back in, having a bottle of water in hand at the register BEFORE SHIFT, being short $.02 cents, you get the idea. Stupid minutia.
Then the manager {same sex} began harassing MOH to no end, for anything and everything. WHne MOH stated was going to file a harassment report and had to ask the manager for that company specific paperwork, the manager terminated MOH "FOR CAUSE".

Fast forward to next job: another cashier position at another grocery. MOH has ben at minimum or $.05-.15 above, but the state is raising hte minimum to $15 by 2020, so this is how it goes THERE after 5 years: MOH gets a raise of $.05-.15 every anniversary in JUne, then in December when the state minimum goes up, MOH is back at minimum. MOH has the highest speed score and accuracy score, has been there now going on 6 years in JUne, is still at the new state minimum effective Dec 30, 2016. Management turnover has been tremendous, a new set every year as the company rotates them, and every new manager states "we'll see how you work out" to MOH!!!! WHAT after 5 years and the highest speed/accuracy score, hundreds of on-time punches and only one day late {they altered the schedule, then claimed MOH was "MIA" when they had to call MOH in due to high volume business, or else MOH would have had a "no call no show".

Oh, AND MOH does have a 2 year degree, SO DON'T GO THERE with your "you need an education", just no jobs in that field here, and the degree has aged out, and the jobs we see in other cities, well, the pay is comparable to minimum wage here due to COL there, AND our aging rapidly parents are here, we consider it our duty to take care of them.

I have been fine working the odd part time job as I have SSDI, and can earn a certain amount just like any other SS recipient without losing it, but am trying earnestly to re-enter the workforce at a job I can actually do now, disability and all.
I have YEARS worth of work in a variety of fields I can no longer do physically. It is very FRUSTRATING as I have either no or limited RECENT work experience, and that employers DON'T LIKE.FOR ANY position that I get as "permanent", the employer can be REIMBURSED FOR ALL training costs and first 6 months of my wages. I'd be a "free employee"...do you think that helps?
AND I expect no less than minimum to start anywhere around here, even at jobs posting at $2.00 above minimum, some wanting a BA or BS OR a MASTERS degree!!! {for $2.00 over minimum wage???????} {REALLY?} glad I never got that far into debt for college to make a whole $2.00 over minimum!

SO, it's all relative, as a member of the military, you WERE taken care of, still are. {I tired but I'm asthmatic, they wouldn't take me}.

But reality around here is unless you are Doctor, Lawyer or RN nurse,you won't make much more than minimum.

nay, for many, minimum is all they will get.

According the Special edition 20/20 with Diane Sawyer, even adjunct faculty at a $38k/yr tuition university RELY ON FOOD STAMPS to supplement their incomes!

Nope MANY employers have figured: ALL WE HAVE TO PAY IS MINIMUM WAGE.

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Old 01-14-2017, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Not around here.
"... With each of our children, they started working at MW, then as their worth increased so their wages increased."

"... In the last few months I have had a group of contractors doing work for me. I have been on-site watching the work progress and I have spoken with their workers. I am curious about how the new laws increasing the MW here will effect these contractors. It seems that the effect will be minimal since it is only the new hires that get paid MW."


Quote:
...SO, it's all relative, as a member of the military, you WERE taken care of, still are. {I tired but I'm asthmatic, they wouldn't take me}.
My salary has been below the national average, and now it is less than MW. Who is 'taken care of'?



Quote:
... nay, for many, minimum is all they will get.
Realize this includes the military.
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Old 01-14-2017, 07:58 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,848 posts, read 57,874,473 times
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The minimum wage was established in an era very much like we have now
with an over supply of lower level people relative to the number of lower level jobs they could get.
Absent a Federal minimum (of some sort at some level) employers would abuse their position.

That doesn't mean it has to remain so binary... but the underlying base is still warranted.
The only practical means to not need it is if there were an under supply of lower level people
relative to the number of lower level jobs they could get... allowing the employee to abuse their position.
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Old 01-14-2017, 08:22 PM
 
2,746 posts, read 3,425,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
"... With each of our children, they started working at MW, then as their worth increased so their wages increased."

"... In the last few months I have had a group of contractors doing work for me. I have been on-site watching the work progress and I have spoken with their workers. I am curious about how the new laws increasing the MW here will effect these contractors. It seems that the effect will be minimal since it is only the new hires that get paid MW."




My salary has been below the national average, and now it is less than MW. Who is 'taken care of'?





Realize this includes the military.

Contractors don't hire minimum wage workers. All laborers make over minimum wage 10-$15 an hour and mechanics, journeyman and foremans make double that at least.
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Old 01-14-2017, 08:42 PM
 
573 posts, read 233,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
There shouldn't be a Federal minimum wage at all.
Why's that?
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Old 01-15-2017, 05:38 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,848 posts, read 57,874,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie1278 View Post
Contractors don't hire minimum wage workers.
All laborers make over minimum wage 10-$15 an hour
and mechanics, journeyman and foremen make double that at least.
Not that I disagree with your points...
but when we recast those numbers as a percentage of minimum wage
(as they always used to be when LABOR supported having the floor)
those on the bottom can see a real path upward to aspire toward.

Situation A =. MW + 25% (known to reliably show up)
Situation B =. MW + 50% (will show up and work hard)
Situation C =. MW + 75% (shows up, works hard and takes instruction well)

Of course there are LOCAL issues that come into play too.
But this is why the FEDERAL minimum has always been kept low.
---

Then you can get into the next levels up ... of skilled work classifications where
the wage rate floor is "new apprentice" ...against which the higher levels are calculated.

These plateaus are objectively regimented by # of hours worked...
and specific sets of skills and experience are objectively achieved...
rather than the entirely subjective of what any given owner or supervisor feels is warranted.

New Apprentice. apprx MW + 50%
2nd Year Apprentice.
1st year Journeyman
2nd Year Journeyman
3rd Year Journeyman

One example:
https://labor.hawaii.gov/rs/files/2012/12/APP488.pdf
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