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Old 05-02-2017, 07:49 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,986,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
And Marxism creates poverty and misery and oppression wherever it is practiced. And the more thoroughly its tenets are followed the worse the results. I mean, look no further than Venezuela. Twenty years ago, the wealthiest, most stable country in Latin America? Today, after two decades of Socialism, a complete basket case of a country.
In actual history, GDP tripled between 1999 and 2013, as the Bolivarian Revolution threw off the shackles of long decades of brutal rule and exploitation by the few families of the Venezuelan oligarchy. The election of Hugo Chavez was indeed a huge victory for the people of that nation. Sadly, when Chavez died at age 58, there was no one actually qualified to be his successor.

It should be further noted that while Hugo Chavez adored Simon Bolivar, Karl Marx dismissed him. Treating Chavez as a Marxist is worse than being merely simplistic.
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Old 05-02-2017, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
You realize that the free-for-all was initiated in the 1990s when the Federal government, through FMAE and FMAC, implemented policies that mandated lower lending standards.
LOL! This is a meme from Dream World. In reality, there has never been any law, policy, rule, regulation, or court order that required lenders to extend credit to anyone who was not fully qualified for it.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:07 AM
 
10,494 posts, read 6,934,013 times
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Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
LOL! This is a meme from Dream World. In reality, there has never been any law, policy, rule, regulation, or court order that required lenders to extend credit to anyone who was not fully qualified for it.
So, tell me how you're an authority on banking. What is your background? Did you sit in board meetings? Did you talk to underwriters? Did you meet with Federal regulators? Did you go through a loan portfolio audit?

If not, then I think you're the one in a dream world.

The incident I remember the best? I read a white paper in 2003 that was written by the chief economists of FMAE and FMAC. It predicted the housing boom would continue uninterrupted until 2020, with an annualized rise of 7% in home values. I showed the paper to the senior underwriter of a multi-billion dollar mortgage operation in forty markets and asked his opinion. He read it, slid it back, and predicted the collapse of the mortgage market in 2006.

As he put it, "Used to be, when I turned down someone for a mortgage, I'd call them up and tell them why. How to fix their credit and try again. Now when I turn down someone for a mortgage, I have to call someone at FMAC and tell them why. So when someone is a marginal borrower and a risk, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt."
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:13 AM
 
10,494 posts, read 6,934,013 times
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Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
In actual history, GDP tripled between 1999 and 2013, as the Bolivarian Revolution threw off the shackles of long decades of brutal rule and exploitation by the few families of the Venezuelan oligarchy. The election of Hugo Chavez was indeed a huge victory for the people of that nation. Sadly, when Chavez died at age 58, there was no one actually qualified to be his successor.

It should be further noted that while Hugo Chavez adored Simon Bolivar, Karl Marx dismissed him. Treating Chavez as a Marxist is worse than being merely simplistic.
Man. You're the one living in fantasy land. The only reason Venezuela had the prosperity it did through the first years of Chavez's reign was because he cannibalized the country's assets and was lucky enough to profit off the rise in oil prices. In constant 2014 dollars, the price of oil rose sevenfold from 2002 until 2010. So, duh, Venezuela's economy prospered, but that was off borrowed time.

But the bottom fell out in the oil market and so did Venezuela's economy. But because he denuded the asset class in his country during the 2000s, there was no longer any backstop.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...ichest-economy

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 05-02-2017 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 05-02-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,931 posts, read 11,662,820 times
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There is at least one scholarly paper that showed that group must likely to free-ride in an experimental setting was, you guessed it, economists. Free-ridership doesn't come close to the truly evil parasitic behavior seen in the financial sector.

Yes, I am an economist.
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:15 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,986,170 times
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
So, tell me how you're an authority on banking. What is your background? Did you sit in board meetings? Did you talk to underwriters? Did you meet with Federal regulators? Did you go through a loan portfolio audit? If not, then I think you're the one in a dream world.
Very little in the way of credentials would be required to debunk fictional assertions. The facts are that there has never been any law, policy, rule, regulation, or court order that required lenders to extend credit to anyone who was not fully qualified for it. This is why you have not and will not be posting any examples to the contrary.

And by the way, the expected value of personal anecdotes is zero.

Last edited by Pub-911; 05-02-2017 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:23 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,986,170 times
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
In constant 2014 dollars, the price of oil rose sevenfold from 2002 until 2010. So, duh, Venezuela's economy prospered, but that was off borrowed time.
All oil-exporting countries are apt to face the same sort of pressures, and these have nothing to do with the politics or personality of any chief executive.

The fact is that the great majority of Venezuela's long-suffering people benefited greatly from the Bolivarian Revolution. This is why the people voted over and over again for Chavez and his policies. For them, the tragedy is that Maduro has been so ill-suited to carrying on in his stead.
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:24 AM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,688,177 times
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Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
LOL! This is a meme from Dream World. In reality, there has never been any law, policy, rule, regulation, or court order that required lenders to extend credit to anyone who was not fully qualified for it.
No, but there were threats of lawsuits based off of disparate impact theory, in which if creditors denied loans using the lower standards, it would have impacted minorities the most, of the fed gov would have filed a lawsuit.
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:25 AM
 
10,494 posts, read 6,934,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Very little in the way of credentials would be required to debunk fictional assertions. The facts are that there has never been any law, policy, rule, regulation, or court order that required lenders to extend credit to anyone who was not fully qualified for it. This is why you have not and will not be posting any examples to the contrary.

And by the way, the expected value of all personal anecdotes is zero.
In other words, you have zero experience in this. You are just some self-important gadfly who read some postmortems that agreed with your pre-formed opinion, while I was a witness to the slow-motion crash that was the mortgage business over the span of 10 years. I sat in the seminars, I talked to my banking and mortgage clients, and sat in a lot of board meetings over the span of time, and there wasn't a time when there wasn't keen awareness of how century-old principles of underwriting were being undercut to fulfill a vague objective in social engineering. Do you know where you were when FHA stopped underwriting Jumbo Loans in June, 2006? I do. I was about to walk into a meeting with a developer. I literally walked into the meeting and advised him to stop building posthaste. He didn't and he's bankrupt today.

Yeah, there were some opportunists. But prior to the wholesale changes in government policy in the mid-90s, it was a point of pride for most banks to keep their portfolio. But once the government began insisting on more lenient underwriting, most banks realized that their portfolios would prove untenable. When you realize that the Return on Assets for a well-performing bank is about 1.5%, their margin for error when it comes to bad loans is remarkably small. So they started dumping their mortgages. The classic case of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

And by the way, I put my money where my mouth is. In 2006, while people such as you were merrily thinking the housing market would continue rising forever, we sold our house at the top of the market and bought something cheaper in the burbs. Because we knew what was about to take place.

Want a good summary of government's role? This article pretty much speaks to everything I personally witnessed, all of which took place while you were most likely oblivious to the looming crisis:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/norbert.../#35d2dacd564e

I mean, hell, all you have to do is look at the likes of Maxine Waters and Barney Frank who fought legislation to change underwriting in 2003 when it was realized that the current efforts were leading to disaster. I'll even provide you the transcripts:

HR 2575, the Secondary Mortgage Market Enterprises Regulatory Improvement Act and the Administration's proposals on GSE regulation

Yessiree, Maxine Waters and Barney Frank and the usual band of suspects did everything they could to keep the shenanigans of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac out of the public eye, and then blamed the banks when the whole thing went south beginning in late 2007. And credulous, agenda driven folks like you believed them.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 05-02-2017 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:37 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 2,986,170 times
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Originally Posted by boxus View Post
No, but there were threats of lawsuits based off of disparate impact theory, in which if creditors denied loans using the lower standards, it would have impacted minorities the most, of the fed gov would have filed a lawsuit.
Discrimination in lending has been illegal since the 1960's. Suits against violators were nothing new in the 1990's, although the fact that CRA reviews became a matter of public record may have increased the chances that violators would be identified and brought to answer for their misdeeds.

Last edited by Pub-911; 05-02-2017 at 10:58 AM..
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