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Old 06-03-2017, 04:23 PM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
Can you develop?
Most people won't or can't take bitcoins.
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:32 AM
 
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I find that 2-bit coins work well in vending machines and parking meters.

Having bought up a big supply of investment-grade luminiferous ether (as mentioned above, using ethereum to buy it) I am now looking to unload it at a profit. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
Most people won't or can't take bitcoins.
Well, a bit coin would be 12.5 cents which is a bit tricky to deal with in making change. Anyway, it's been a long time since I cut a silver dollar into eighths.
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
Federal reserve note, bitcoin, both are fiat currencies.
The Canadian banknotes at the end of 2016 were worth
$77.337 billion CAD = $57.495 USD

$47.722 billion USD is now the market capitalization of bitcoins

So bitcoins are now rivaling some of the major national currencies.

The British pound (banknotes only) are worth $94.4 billion USD. If bitcoin passes the pound they will be the world's 5th most important fiat currency, behind USD, EUR, JPY and CNY.

I suspect that the Nordic countries will develop blockchain versions of their currencies, and they may prove to be as popular as bitcoins.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:38 AM
 
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I suspect that fortunes can be made off arbitrage in international postal coupons.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Chicago
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It seems like crypto currencies have only really been useful for arbitrage opportunities. Not enough companies or people accept it as tender yet (not a strong enough trading network).
I really hope its bubble pops due to over-speculation (Dutch Tulip craze anyone?).
I'll be all in on that after the fall.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:39 PM
 
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It seems to me that for something to be an actual currency, there are at least two major requirements.

1) That it be widely accepted as a valid medium of exchange for public and private debts. $US is clearly this. Bitcoin etc. clearly are not, but an argument could be made that this is merely a matter of time.

2) That its value be relatively stable with respect to a particular packet of goods or services. Again, $US clearly is this. A reasonably nice dinner for two runs around, let's say, $50. Last year it was pretty much the same, and next year it'll be similar. All the reasons why people would accept a particular medium of exchange depend heavily on this stability of value. Note that in countries where the country's own currency has unstable value, a black market immediately springs up, carried on in currency of more stable value (whether this be dollars, Euros, or Lucky Strike cigarettes).

This last item is the problem with the whole bitcoin etc. concept. Why would someone want to use bitcoin etc. as a medium of exchange, taking payment in it, paying in it, and parking assets in it? It's either:

a) because of some technical advantage, which seems to come down to "it's digital" which of course means nothing since the vast majority of all currencies exist mostly as 0s and 1s.

or

b) because you can buy a bunch of it now, and later it'll be worth a whole lot more in terms of that packet of goods and services.

Well, item (b) basicallly tells me that it's NOT A CURRENCY, because it doesn't have a stable value with respect to a packet of goods and services. In fact, what you're saying is that you will buy bitcoin using dollars now, and later turn it back into a whole lot more dollars. So the REAL CURRENCY you are using here, because it's the point of reference, is the Dollar (or Euro, or what have you).

Let me also point out that if bitcoin is worth a lot more dollars in the future than it is now, it is an appreciating currency, in other words it will take less bitcoin to buy that dinner in the future than it does now, in other words, in terms of bitcoin, prices will show deflation. No one wants to be a debtor when there is deflation, because you have to pay back your debt in currency that is worth more in terms of goods and services than it was when you borrowed the currency. So if bitcoin etc. appreciates wildly like its supporters expect it to, no one will want to contract debts in bitcoin etc., which means it will not be useful as a currency. In fact, lenders very likely will have to charge negative interest to debtors!

Either it's a real currency, in which case it will have a fairly stable value with respect to goods and services, which means that you can make modest gains by trading large amounts of it against other real currencies (note the term "modest gains - not what the supporters are claiming)...

Or it's expected to have a dramatic increase in its value with respect to goods and services, in which case it's not a currency.

Now if bitcoin etc. aren't really currencies, because - should they rapidly appreciate - they can't be used for planning nor for debts, due to their unstable value with respect to goods and services, then what are they?

They are something that people buy because they expect it will be worth more in the future than it is now. But why will it be worth more in the future? Not because it's more widely accepted than the existing currencies such as $US, Euro, Japanese Yen, etc. I've already discussed that the "it's digital" is a fallacy.

Why would it be worth more in the future than it is now? Because its supporters anticipate that more people will want to buy it in the future than want to now. Why will more people want to buy it in the future? Because they think it will be worth more in the distant future than it will be in the nearer future when they are buying it. And so on.

So tell me why this is any different from any other speculative "investment" product that depends for its attractiveness on a continuously increasing price driven solely by the expectation of even more continuously increasing price.
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:17 AM
 
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Sounds here like something Charles Ponzi might have been interested in.
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Old 06-14-2017, 01:40 PM
 
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Default stable crypto currencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
It seems to me that for something to be an actual currency, there are at least two major requirements.

1) That it be widely accepted as a valid medium of exchange for public and private debts. $US is clearly this. Bitcoin etc. clearly are not, but an argument could be made that this is merely a matter of time.

2) That its value be relatively stable with respect to a particular packet of goods or services. Again, $US clearly is this. A reasonably nice dinner for two runs around, let's say, $50. Last year it was pretty much the same, and next year it'll be similar. All the reasons why people would accept a particular medium of exchange depend heavily on this stability of value. Note that in countries where the country's own currency has unstable value, a black market immediately springs up, carried on in currency of more stable value (whether this be dollars, Euros, or Lucky Strike cigarettes).
Market Capitilization
Bitcoin $42,622,701,330
Ethereum $34,765,530,175

Ethereum is skyrocketing in 2017 from $8 to $376 because it has potential better usage as a medium of exchange than bitcoin.

But your second point may be met by a nation using a cryptocurrency tied to it's national currency. You will have the possibilities of a digital payment system that does not have the risk of commercial bank money based on debt combined with the stability of a national currency.

Ecuador has been an early pioneer of digital currency. Ecuador has abandoned their own currency and now uses the US dollar. Such a decision was made to fight out of control inflation in 1990s, but it comes at a high cost. Essentially Ecuador has to get their banknotes from the USA, but it must pay full value for pieces of secure paper. They want the best of both worlds, to keep the USD, but to force people to go digital so they don't have to pay a fortune for banknotes.

Sweden has gone to widespread use of commercial bank money because of a smart phone app called SWISH (introduced in 2012) which allows them to easily make and accept payments. Commercial bank money is wonderful as long as the banks never go bankrupt and the real estate market remains strong.

Unlike commercial banks, the central bank cannot really go bankrupt. Hence banknotes are always valid since they represent "central bank money". In Sweden banknotes have been reduced to about $500 per person as most people now use commercial bank apps. So Sweden's central bank is seriously considering issuing a digital currency backed by the central bank.

This currency would meet criteria #2 mentioned by turf3. Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Britain are also considering issuing a crypto currency backed by their central banks, but unlike Sweden they haven't eliminated banknotes to such an extreme.

Britain may eliminate the 50 banknote in a few years. They would just have the 5, 10, and 20 ~ US$25 banknotes. The idea would be to discourage cash transactions that are designed to avoid taxes.

Although Sweden has reduced their cash in circulation to about $500 per person, about 70% of the new banknotes by value are the two largest denominations, 500SEK ~ US$57 and 1000SEK ~ US$114.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:08 AM
 
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So much is actually just an artifact.

Over men and horses hoops and garters
Lastly through a hogshead of real fire!
In this way Mr. K. will challenge the world!
-- The Beatles
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