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Old 06-20-2017, 05:55 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
There are several ways to structure a consumption tax so as to be progressive. Ditto for a sales tax.
You can turn the current income tax into a consumption tax simply by making all deposits to savings accounts deductible and all withdrawals additions to income.

The proposal above however was to end the income tax and replace it with a VAT. This is pretty much just a naked ploy to reduce the progressivity of taxation.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:23 AM
 
2,953 posts, read 1,388,601 times
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There is a woman who cleans many houses in my area. She only takes cash so she can qualify for Obamacare, food stamps etc.
She had an opening in her schedule and my neighbor asked me if I wanted to use her. I said I will be writing a check. She never called me.
I consider these people who are paying her in cash almost as guilty as her. They know exactly what she is doing. Yet they vote for Trump and use her.

There are many small businesses who don't accept cash, we are one of them. Anyone who doesn't sell to the public and sells to businesses who use PO"s, can't take cash. My customers (other businesses) need paper trails. As I do.

But I bought from businesses with cash who probably discounted the item in their books and pocketed some cash. I could almost see the hamster in their head trying to make this work while I'm standing there, cash in hand. Jewelry. Most overpriced item available to the public.

The trades are probably the biggest scammers of under the table income.

Last edited by foundapeanut; 06-20-2017 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:00 AM
 
11,423 posts, read 19,433,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut View Post
There is a woman who cleans many houses in my area. She only takes cash so she can qualify for Obamacare, food stamps etc.
She had an opening in her schedule and my neighbor asked me if I wanted to use her. I said I will be writing a check. She never called me.
I consider these people who are paying her in cash almost as guilty as her. They know exactly what she is doing. Yet they vote for Trump and use her.

There are many small businesses who don't accept cash, we are one of them. Anyone who doesn't sell to the public and sells to businesses who use PO"s, can't take cash. My customers (other businesses) need paper trails. As I do.

But I bought from businesses with cash who probably discounted the item in their books and pocketed some cash. I could almost see the hamster in their head trying to make this work while I'm standing there, cash in hand. Jewelry. Most overpriced item available to the public.

The trades are probably the biggest scammers of under the table income.
You can always take cash.

When you sell a product or service and you client pays cash, you issue an invoice or reciept. You mark it paid by cash, and then you deposit said cash.

It's just a mortal pain. I'd far rather take checks so I don't have to go the bank every day.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:43 AM
 
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I'm not sure what might go on in the rest of the country, but it's for darned sure that no one will be coming in to clean my house who is not bonded, insured, a vetted by people with a solid business record and reputation in the community. This means that the same 3-person crew comes in for two hours or so on every other Monday. We pay the company for this service and the company then takes care of paying staff and making mandated payments to the IRS on their behalf. We've been with this company for about seven years now. We previously used other companies that did not work out as well. But they all operated in just the same manner.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:09 AM
 
5,598 posts, read 4,204,310 times
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We tried to use a cleaning service. They did a poor job....and btw, also demanded cash.


The cleaning service did not work out very well so we found an individual who also wants cash. The person stopped working so we found another.


We paid a tree service $7000 to remove some trees. We got a discount for cash.


We paid $35,000 for home remodeling about half of that was cash payments. The carpenter, plumber and electrician all worked for cash. We just had an AC repair. Cash again. I took some archery lessons from the owner of an archery range. The first visit I paid with credit card and was asked to bring cash since it "went in his pocket, you know". In this part of the country, the underground economy is huge. No one even tries to pretend otherwise. I feel like I have always paid higher taxes because of this but I cannot change the rest of the world. Nor do I feel like passing up on discounts because the tax system does not work.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,744 posts, read 1,207,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
How significant do you believe the underground economy is? Compared to prior year, do you think it's greater, less or about the same?

What do you think of people who qualify for government entitlement programs because their above-the-ground income "qualifies" them?
It varies widely from state to state. I think it's shrinking all the time. While peer to peer transactions are happening more as people use the internet, people are using credit cards over cash and anything through a credit card is getting reported.

Hiring undocumented workers went down significantly in CA after courts would take up their cases for hours/overtime violations and award to the people no matter what. It was almost a backwards way of fining those that might even associate with illegal labor.

Even companies that simply rely on poorly paid labor (underground or not) are seeing increasing tax incentives to not do this.

You'll still have your farmers market/flea market garden variety of under the table consumption, but it's a pretty small component.

The lion's increase, in my opinion, is with the ever greater leverage effects and people's ability to legally embezzle funds from their companies at the top. I buy company X, I take out terrible loans with it as collateral. I buy company Y and do the same. I then form Company Z and have them do a leveraged buyout of both X and Y for a massive merger. Within all that movement are plenty of options to pillage company assets or cover-up unscrupulous practices.

As for the government programs...I could care less. it's a tiny component of government spending. God bless em if they can live off it and want to bother getting it.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:48 PM
 
564 posts, read 260,696 times
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People who have seen how the Appropriations Committee chooses to spend tax dollars can't get too exercised about evading taxes. I seem to recall President Obama's first choice for, was it Treasury secretary? hadn't paid his taxes. And he was a senator! All kinds of politicians duck taxes. Check it out.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:45 PM
 
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I am sure a lot of people work under the table where i live.
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Old 07-08-2017, 11:05 AM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,025,705 times
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Allowing for the huge push-back on all types of taxes, I wouldn't be surprised if the desire for un-taxed dollars is rising. American's hate taxes, but love the infrastructure bought by those taxes. The OP referenced those who qualify for government entitlements based upon their stated income, minus their under the table earnings, I'm far more concerned about the fact of tax dollars going to the obviously wealthy, who least need it. The underground economy has probably benefited most from the sales of illicit drugs, not unclaimed income..
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:53 AM
 
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In most realistic situations, it will be cheaper and easier for employers to play by the rules than to try to cut corners. If you want to find under-the-table workers, you'll have most of your success in small-scale, project-oriented, fly-by-night, fringe operations with business plans that don't extend out more than a year or two.
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