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Old 06-20-2017, 10:43 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,759,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Without doing any proper detailed research, my understanding of employer paid health insurance/employer provided health care is that this originated in WWII where wages were controlled(frozen) by the government so in order to be competitive, Henry Kaiser instituted free health care. This could not be considered income but it sure was a benefit. The idea spread across the land. Having more money available meant health care became better and better salaries attracted better care givers, which required more money, and resulted in more research which resulted in better care which resulted in health care approaching 20% of the economy.
"If you build it they will come"

And the worker without said benefit should pay a higher effective tax rate...why?

 
Old 06-20-2017, 10:51 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,237,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
A Liberal is someone who feels a great debt to their fellow Man, which debt they would gladly repay with your money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Was the welfare state created by Conservatives?
You guys have got to get the chip off your shoulders. This isn't a political thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Without doing any proper detailed research, my understanding of employer paid health insurance/employer provided health care is that this originated in WWII where wages were controlled(frozen) by the government so in order to be competitive, Henry Kaiser instituted free health care. This could not be considered income but it sure was a benefit. The idea spread across the land. Having more money available meant health care became better and better salaries attracted better care givers, which required more money, and resulted in more research which resulted in better care which resulted in health care approaching 20% of the economy.
"If you build it they will come"
Not free but affordable.

It has been hard to find research on Kaiser and employer based health plans. The only thing I've been able to gather was that Kaiser had more affordable health plans for steel workers for the War effort then to the general public.

I guess the gist of your post is that the employer manage care system is better than what we had before.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 06:10 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,913,175 times
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More "employment-based coverage" than "employer managed care."
 
Old 06-21-2017, 06:29 AM
 
866 posts, read 448,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Increase the progressive income tax on anyone making over $250,000 a year, and increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Reduce corporate tax loopholes. Put a tariff on all imported goods, including the goods of US corporations that have avoided US taxes by setting up overseas Divisions. Cut the military and homeland security budgets by 50% and use the money to hire workers to improve the infrastructure. Make health care and public college education free. Make child day care for workers' children free. Reduce the maximum interest rates on credit. In essence, stop goughing the poor and middle classes to benefit the wealthy corporations and individuals.
Honest question without malice; Why do you feel entitled to more of an individual's income if it exceeds $250,000/yr?

I don't make that much but if what you wanted came to fruition, I sure as heck wouldn't work hard enough to exceed that amount. I provide jobs and housing for people and I pay very well. Most of my crew makes $40/hr. I don't employ them full time but with other investors such as myself, these guys are booked solid making a great living.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 06:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campfires View Post
Honest question without malice; Why do you feel entitled to more of an individual's income if it exceeds $250,000/yr?
Two simple lessons: Taxes are an obligation, not an imposition. The more wealth one has, the easier it is to pay an extra dollar in taxes.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Being concerned about wealth 'redistribution" ignores the other half of the equation, the distribution of wealth which leans toward the top tier of society. The term redistribution itself has been connected to a manufactured fear of socialism and the notion of power as something having to do with how much wealth one has.

America's total wealth has already been redistributed, from the laborer--to the corporate till. The loss of an effective American labor voice has altered the picture of how wealth is created and distributed. Nobody should be foolish enough to act as though the migration of wealth in an upward class spiral is somehow a natural phenomenon, it isn't. Power is the reason for wealth concentration, those with great wealth have a political voice, and those without, well.. They don't.

This statement below sums up nicely the ideas of wealth and power as they relate to the very real inequality between labor and the corporate class who fight vigorously for their lopsided share of labors contribution.

"Take, for instance, the phrases “redistribution of wealth” and “class warfare.” The visceral response in the American psyche is fear — fear of communism. And those who cry the loudest are those who have already waged class warfare, albeit quietly.Wealth in America already has been redistributed. The only question is whether to let that redistribution continue, or to “re-redistribute” the upward distribution that has already taken place."


Gordon C Stewart, from, The View from the Edge.

As I like to say, "Life is regressive" - e.g. since nobody is born owning a home, renting - paying a premium for temporary, impaired use of someone else's property - is the default starting position, so income is naturally redistributed upward until we are able to escape rent serfdom.

Zoning codes are designed to protect the financial and lifestyle interests of property owners, and hinder property acquisition by individuals below the local financial mainstream - more regressivity and upward redistribution. The poor in this country who never acquire property face a lot of upward redistribution.

George Will also says "Life is regressive" but he says it in a different context.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
The poor in this country who never acquire property face a lot of upward redistribution.
Well, they get a free K-12 education, and a lot of other federal, state, and local support. That all seems more downward than upward. Maybe the problem is that some just won't take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to them.

And zoning regulations are still for the benefit of everyone.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:34 AM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
6,376 posts, read 2,593,731 times
Reputation: 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Increase the progressive income tax on anyone making over $250,000 a year, and increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Reduce corporate tax loopholes. Put a tariff on all imported goods, including the goods of US corporations that have avoided US taxes by setting up overseas Divisions. Cut the military and homeland security budgets by 50% and use the money to hire workers to improve the infrastructure. Make health care and public college education free. Make child day care for workers' children free. Reduce the maximum interest rates on credit. In essence, stop goughing the poor and middle classes to benefit the wealthy corporations and individuals.
This is why the Left will be on the outside looking in for the forseeable future.
Free everything! How long would the $15/hr min wage be in effect? Would it increase to $20/hr the following year?
It's truly amazing that America has a constituency that actually thinks this way.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:45 AM
 
866 posts, read 448,918 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Two simple lessons: Taxes are an obligation, not an imposition. The more wealth one has, the easier it is to pay an extra dollar in taxes.


If you impose an obligation on someone that targets their productivity and penalizes them for excessive productivity, they will function at a less efficient level or alleviate the penalty.

I just had this conversation with my town assessor when he came to do an interior inspection on one of my rehabs. He wants me taxed "fairly". I want to pay the lowest property tax possible. My argument was that if I can't get a satisfactory return on my investment of capitol and labor while increasing the tax base of the community (the neighboring houses increase in value), I will be less inclined to buy and fix up these derelict properties.

If the property tax burden is too great, there will be less good paying jobs due to investors like me putting our money elsewhere.

If the income tax burden is too great, I will lessen my burden anyway I can (that is why the rich create all of the loopholes).
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:48 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,913,175 times
Reputation: 3787
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
This is why the Left will be on the outside looking in for the forseeable future. Free everything! How long would the $15/hr min wage be in effect? Would it increase to $20/hr the following year? It's truly amazing that America has a constituency that actually thinks this way.
What's more amazing is that so many people simply do not understand any of this. They turn themselves into zombie-pawns for the proverbial silver-tongued charlatans and demagogues.
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