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Old 06-21-2017, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,730,147 times
Reputation: 4206

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
America's total wealth has already been redistributed, from the laborer--to the corporate till.
This in addition to another obvious truth, is often covered over with BS. Why didn't all the money go to the corporate til from the start? The answer is that consumer-capitalism functions most optimally (highest aggregate wealth) when consumers (laborers) share equally in productivity gains. If the oligarchs had grabbed all the gains from the start, we'd be a poor country, and poor countries have no power or influence in the world.

The period when we most needed a strong economy and a content and patriotic populous, was during and after WW2. It was easily created via tax policy, public benefits, and support for unions. And when the Soviet Union was on its last legs that ended, to be replaced with creative finance (public and private debt escalation) and globalization. This severed the oligarchs dependence on domestic consumers, and allowed them to suck up an ever greater portion of the pie, without tanking the economy completely.

If you think it's bad now, it's going to get a lot more interesting. Consumer capitalism is on the way out entirely, and the thing that will "naturally" replace it will be extremely challenging for society: Robotics will change everything

 
Old 06-21-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,730,147 times
Reputation: 4206
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
This is why the Left will be on the outside looking in for the forseeable future.
Don't you love how the "media" is able to guide and pigeon hole people's thinking into two ridiculous "camps", and then keep each side thoroughly entralled, entranced, and incensed by poking fun at the strawman version of the other?
 
Old 06-21-2017, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,671 posts, read 9,420,097 times
Reputation: 14919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Two simple lessons: Taxes are an obligation, not an imposition. The more wealth one has, the easier it is to pay an extra dollar in taxes.
It is equally easy for both the wealthy and the not-so-wealthy. Just put a dollar bill in an addressed, stamped envelope and pray that the US Post Office doesn't lose it in transit.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 08:46 AM
 
3,266 posts, read 2,335,410 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
And the worker without said benefit should pay a higher effective tax rate...why?
Who pays for your health insurance? I assume it's all of us since you never complain about those costs.

Where's our tax break?
 
Old 06-21-2017, 08:54 AM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,220,904 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
This is why the Left will be on the outside looking in for the forseeable future.
Free everything! How long would the $15/hr min wage be in effect? Would it increase to $20/hr the following year?
It's truly amazing that America has a constituency that actually thinks this way.
Your obsession with the "Left" not withstanding what is your answer to an ever increasing standard of living?
 
Old 06-21-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,671 posts, read 9,420,097 times
Reputation: 14919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
Your obsession with the "Left" not withstanding what is your answer to an ever increasing standard of living?
I'm all for GDP growth.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 04:14 PM
 
9,260 posts, read 7,284,180 times
Reputation: 22715
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Was the welfare state created by Conservatives?
Look up how many conservatives use and benefit from government benefits. Welfare, healthcare, housing assistance, food assistance, student loans, social security spousal benefits, disability, tax breaks, on and on.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 04:29 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
Reputation: 3782
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
It is equally easy for both the wealthy and the not-so-wealthy. Just put a dollar bill in an addressed, stamped envelope and pray that the US Post Office doesn't lose it in transit.
Fallacies of equivocation make one sound silly. not funny.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 06:55 PM
 
Location: New York NY
4,133 posts, read 5,940,379 times
Reputation: 8660
I'm surprised that nobody has provided the obvious answer to the OPs question about "wealth redistribution". (And for the time being I'll leave let that mischaracterization of what I'd call "equity" alone.")


You institute a wealth tax instead (or in addition) to an income tax. You tax all an individual wealth, either on a flat rate or progressive rate, instead of their income. So the tax is not just on the dividends from stocks, but the value of the stocks themselves. Not just on a bond's interest, but on the bond too. Same with limited partnerships and other financial assets. No just on the rents from buildings, but on the actual market value of office towers and apartment buildings. (Yes, the equivalent of a federal property tax). And yes, a tax paid every year, based on market value, of all the baubles that rich folks play with--their art, jewelry, yachts, race horses, and so on.


A wealth tax could help level the playing field in an age of growing inequality, fund necessary government expenditures like infrastructure and health care. And most importantly, it would reduce the social friction and political instability that can threaten a democracy when wealth and income inequality keeps growing.


Would it work? Like everything, the Devil is in the details. It would depend on lots of other stuff, ranging from what would happen to income tax rates, how state and local tax policies might change, the measures to prevent capital flight (which happens anyway; the rich are very good at finding loopholes and tax havens), whether the tax would be designed to be revenue neutral, and on and on.


But it is the obvious answer in how to ameliorate inequality in the U.S. which is a political problem, not just an economic one.
 
Old 06-21-2017, 07:15 PM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,387,119 times
Reputation: 8123
The question is downright silly since it's a fact that civilization, education and health care costs between 30 and 50% of GDP - every country in the world pays this.

This is akin to me asking "for you breathers out there, what do you propose....???"

We don't own things. We use them for the short time we are on the planet. As long as we pay the loans, the taxes and keep the properties or things up we can pretend we "own" them, but it's all very temporary.

The existing structure in most every civilized country in the world is based on progressive taxes of one sort or another - that is, the more you make, the more you pay. Even a VAT will make a wealthy person pay more if they spend more.

For those who save and save - well, that what what the inheritance tax was for. It only kicks in if you have more than many millions - but the GOP (of course, backed by the Waltons, etc.) want to make it zero despite even Reagan being in favor of it in ALL his tax plans

"We increase the exemption on the inheritance or estate tax to $600,000, so that farmers and family-owned businesses don't have to sell the farm or store in the event of death just to pay the taxes"
Ronald Reagan

So the idea was that a billionaire might pay BILLIONS in estate tax in Reagans time and before, which would certainly help us balance the budget and pay down the debt. It would also greatly help his children and family members as they would not sit around doing nothing their entire lives (although "only" having a couple hundred millions may not stop them).
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