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Old 06-19-2017, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,361 posts, read 6,783,711 times
Reputation: 14412

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Just how would you go about implementing your ideas?

We've had a thread kicking around in the P&OC swamp about "redistributing" large amounts of wealth which have been emerging ever since the early Eighties. Apparently, a lot of the posters over there can't envision it as anything but a huge pile of currency stashed away in a vault "somewhere" ,or at best, in bank accounts exclusively accessible by a super-rich CEO (their favorite stereotypical villain) and that if they could only get their hands on it and turn it over to their "clientele", we'd all be living like kings.

Most of us (or at least a substantial amount) understand that it's not that simple. Probably the largest portion of "new" wealth is represented only by the value, placed by the markets, on the common stock of success stories like Microsoft, Amazon and Google, and many smaller, but similar success stories, and that any attempt to confiscate it would simply cause a large part of that wealth to evaporate.

As it stands now (and assuming that the value represented by the ideas and technology that spawned those success stories holds up -- hardly guaranteed) most of that wealth will pass through generations of heirs and successors, and be taxed as each passes from the scene, or it will be donated to various charities and philanthropies and end up under the control of the non-profit (and non-taxable) sector. And the people who manage that wealth don't base their thinking on the rationale that an ever-expanding "problem" requires an ever-expanding bureaucratic staff; they can recognize frauds and drones and are very good at removing them.

So I wouldn't count on any of our spoiled children planning their sunset cruises on somebody else's hard-earned dollars. "Redistributed cash" which doesn't represent any intrinsic "hard" value, would merely fuel inflation and diminish the purchasing power of those who came by their retirement income (albeit in transfer payments) honestly.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-19-2017 at 12:07 PM..

 
Old 06-19-2017, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Vermont
10,089 posts, read 10,604,044 times
Reputation: 13438
I'm not sure who these "redistributors" are that you're talking about, but I am close to 100% certain that there "is a huge pile of currency stashed away in a vault `somewhere' . . .".


What we do know is that in living memory there was a time when labor enjoyed a much greater share of corporate income than it does now, that corporations paid a much higher share of the national budget in taxes than they do now, and despite what you might consider horrific and unsustainable conditions the United States economy was growing at an unprecedented rate and most families were able to own a home and a car and send their children to college on a single income. At the same time the United States was expanding its military and creating programs designed to reduce poverty.


When was this halcyon period in American history, now seemingly lost in the mists of time?


For all we know this is the time Donald Trump has in mind when he says he wants to "make America great again."

Why it was the 1950's and 60's.


You can quibble about the conclusions as much as you want, but the fact is that it's not that long ago that heads of corporations were not paid millions a year, ordinary workers were paid a living wage, and our national economy was extremely prosperous. I suspect that most of your so-called "redistributors" would be satisfied with the levels of income distribution and tax burden that we all suffered so terribly under in the 1950's.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 12:58 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
I'm not sure who these "redistributors" are that you're talking about, but I am close to 100% certain that there "is a huge pile of currency stashed away in a vault `somewhere' . . .".


What we do know is that in living memory there was a time when labor enjoyed a much greater share of corporate income than it does now, that corporations paid a much higher share of the national budget in taxes than they do now, and despite what you might consider horrific and unsustainable conditions the United States economy was growing at an unprecedented rate and most families were able to own a home and a car and send their children to college on a single income. At the same time the United States was expanding its military and creating programs designed to reduce poverty.


When was this halcyon period in American history, now seemingly lost in the mists of time?


For all we know this is the time Donald Trump has in mind when he says he wants to "make America great again."

Why it was the 1950's and 60's.


You can quibble about the conclusions as much as you want, but the fact is that it's not that long ago that heads of corporations were not paid millions a year, ordinary workers were paid a living wage, and our national economy was extremely prosperous. I suspect that most of your so-called "redistributors" would be satisfied with the levels of income distribution and tax burden that we all suffered so terribly under in the 1950's.
It's pretty easy to offer those things when your foreign competition was a smoldering ruin or not up and running yet. And you were able to set up every international system to your benefit.

We are not able to replicate that environment. We're trending to a multipolar status like the rest of world history.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:05 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
Reputation: 3782
A good read on the subject is Malcolm Gladwell's Talent Grab in the October 2010 issue of the New Yorker. Gladwell himself would tell you that it all came from a 2003 HBR piece by Roger Martin -- Capital Versus Talent -- so maybe check that out as well.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:09 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
Reputation: 3782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
We are not able to replicate that environment.
In large part, because it never actually existed as people are wont to describe it.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:10 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
In large part, because it never actually existed as people are wont to describe it.
It existed for the white, American male. But yes, I agree people's standands today are still very good, and in many ways arguably far better. See: what constitutes an average house for example lol
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:18 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
Reputation: 3782
I was actually referring to all that "the world was destroyed and we had our way with it" babble.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:25 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Babble? You might want to search up in an event called world war 2. Who set up the imf, world bank, UN, wto? Who took over as the worlds reserve currency? Who was able to take British secrets in exchange for radar against uboats? Who was able to take German scientific secrets? What country other than the United States had an untouched industrial capacity? Russia? JPN? Germany? England? Lol...

Who in 1971, because of strategic partners in world war 2 victory zones (Japan and Europe) was allowed to leave the gold standard (to fight those evil reds as the leader of the free world!!!)and eventually have the u.s dollar float as the new "gold" and be backed by opecs oil reserves. A Commodity far more valuable , and more essential to modern economies and militaries?

Other than controlling every political, economic, and military organization by veto power, sure. It's all babble.

The United States was basically handed the crumbling British empire after they were bled to death after 2 world wars and ran with it on steroids.

With a navy unchallenged on the sea, which is historically the way to maritime trade and wealth. A country defensible from 2 oceans and nuclear weapons, with the ability to print fiat currency (rather than set up colonies like Britain)in exchange for the world's real resources and labor. They don't call it the almighty dollar for nothing.


No no let's live in pub911 land where it was all because Americans are exceptional and eat apple pies! We're able to consume 25 percent of the worlds resouces with 3 percent of world population just....because we're that star spangled awesome.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 06-19-2017 at 01:56 PM..
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:34 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,904,197 times
Reputation: 3782
That's what I meant by "as people are wont to describe it."
 
Old 06-19-2017, 01:54 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 591,143 times
Reputation: 3764
Increase the progressive income tax on anyone making over $250,000 a year, and increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Reduce corporate tax loopholes. Put a tariff on all imported goods, including the goods of US corporations that have avoided US taxes by setting up overseas Divisions. Cut the military and homeland security budgets by 50% and use the money to hire workers to improve the infrastructure. Make health care and public college education free. Make child day care for workers' children free. Reduce the maximum interest rates on credit. In essence, stop goughing the poor and middle classes to benefit the wealthy corporations and individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Just how would you go about implementing your ideas? ...
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