U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-13-2017, 03:04 PM
 
7,001 posts, read 6,635,326 times
Reputation: 5274

Advertisements

Republicans just call their Keynesian policies economic reform, military modernization, or something else. It is all the same. Tax cuts and spending increases at or near the bottom of the business cycle per Keynes.

You go BIG on the Keynesian stimulus like the GD or 2009 and the stimulus becomes too large to extract without a relapse in the economy. Hence, you have something like 1938 or today where the policymakers still have emergency measures in place.

This is just a political thread. That's why you get those kinds of responses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-13-2017, 03:29 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,906,546 times
Reputation: 3782
FDR foolishly backed away from Keynesian policy in 1938. He was new to it, after all. Along with most others of the time. The even more foolish Republican Congress did the same thing starting in 2011 by dulling stimulus bill programs or simply letting them expire. Maybe this should actually be a History thread instead of Economics?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2017, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,052 posts, read 2,931,408 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Keynesian theory worked in the Depression, and it worked in 2008.
It did? How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Simple English, but I'll try to dumb it down...Dumb ideas need to be dumped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
If we are now not willing to separate the wheat from the chaff, things are apt to end in a very bad way for us.
Who's we? And who said that "you" are smarter?

If I and my group think that "we" are smarter that you, do we get to dump you? And how do you get to dump ideas? Who made you the garbage man?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2017, 07:25 PM
 
7,001 posts, read 6,635,326 times
Reputation: 5274
Just to give equal time since my two examples of BIG Keynesian stimulus were Dems, Bush Jr also ramped up the stimulus in 2003. Deficits jumped about 500-700 billion dollars. He had the fortune of the Fed engineering a housing bubble where cash out from home refinance was adding 2-3 percentage points to the GDP. You can google "mortgage equity withdrawal GDP". The guy who was tracking it used to post on the same site as I. If you bring it forward after the financial crisis, it was no longer adding to the economy for a considerable time after the crash. It might finally be in positive territory by 2014 or 2015.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2017, 10:12 PM
 
4,829 posts, read 4,808,096 times
Reputation: 6172
Quote:
Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
I'll tell you what is the absolute truth regardless of which side of the aisle you stand: money earned is the best money to have, ask a former poor person who has experienced it both ways (freebies and earned the hard way). He or she will tell you the truth proving what I've said is true.
I doubt that. Poor people essentially trade their health/longevity/life for money to live another day. Money earned could bite off humoungous chunk of one's health/life, so mind conditioning is a must for a sane person to accept that trade off as a feat of personal improvement. Debilitating health conditions will definetely rain on one's feel good parade no matter the extent of talk radio exposure. Basically one must better oneself asap to avoid major side effects while closing one's mind and soul in the process to agree with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2017, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,260,734 times
Reputation: 5732
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
8 years of 0% interest rates, massive stimulus packages, 10 trillion dollars in deficit spending; We never reached 2% growth, the entire market turned into a game of "lets see what the fed does" no fundementals were being looked at at all. We used every government tool possible to stimulate growth and it didn't work. Without growth being at or near historic norms we will never beable to afford this level of government we have. Thankfully we now have an actual pro-growth government in place focused on things that will actually grow our economy like increasing productivity, getting government out of the way. Yes there will be a business cycle, malinvestment during the stronger years will have to be corrected but hopefully we never resort to these exotic government measures that don't work again.
We know socialism doesn't work.
No matter how many times it fails the socialists will always refuse to accept facts.
Because its not a matter of economics, its an emotional thing, they think not with their mind but with the heart, its always emotional driven. They will always deflect from facts to "the rich get rich at the expense of the poor" , thats purely emotional.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2017, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,052 posts, read 2,931,408 times
Reputation: 2492
Several questions in order to have a meaningful debate:

1- Keynesian economics comes in many flavors -- which flavor are we talking about? Which Keynesians is this topic about?

2- How do you know that if you did something produced better results than if you haven't done anything?
So if you really don't know, then how can you say Keynesian was helpful.

3- Even if we pinned down the flavor, and we all agreed what "Keynenian economics to Obama" means, which of course will be futile -- next question is Keynesian during Obama was helpful to whom? Helpful for what? Who said helping whom and what is a good thing?

4- How is Keynesian helping society long-term?

5- How do you square Darwin, Keynes and materialism?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2017, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
9,866 posts, read 8,007,103 times
Reputation: 11220
You're wrong. Keynes was talking about fiscal stimulae. Obama was relying on monetary means to create consumer spending. It didn't work. They had no money to spend and the Banks didn't want to lend after 2008.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2017, 05:40 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,906,546 times
Reputation: 3782
The largest two-year tax cut in US history -- one that targeted those with incomes below $75K -- along with direct aid to support state budgets and expanded spending for UI, SNAP and other benefits were not examples of monetary policy. They were examples of the sorts of Keynesian policies that halted a deep and already 14-month old recession in 5 months. This was something that even many optimists had not thought possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2017, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,052 posts, read 2,931,408 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
You're wrong. Keynes was talking about fiscal stimulae. Obama was relying on monetary means to create consumer spending. It didn't work. They had no money to spend and the Banks didn't want to lend after 2008.
Keynes was for both -- fiscal and monetary policies. Regardless, a lot of water passed under the bridge from 1930s when Keynes formulated his theories to 2009 when Obama started his presidency.

Yet, this is silly. Keynes himself modified somewhat his positions on some aspects.

In some ways discussing Keynes himself is kinda off-topic in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top