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Old 07-04-2017, 08:46 PM
 
1,760 posts, read 581,258 times
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8 years of 0% interest rates, massive stimulus packages, 10 trillion dollars in deficit spending; We never reached 2% growth, the entire market turned into a game of "lets see what the fed does" no fundementals were being looked at at all. We used every government tool possible to stimulate growth and it didn't work. Without growth being at or near historic norms we will never beable to afford this level of government we have. Thankfully we now have an actual pro-growth government in place focused on things that will actually grow our economy like increasing productivity, getting government out of the way. Yes there will be a business cycle, malinvestment during the stronger years will have to be corrected but hopefully we never resort to these exotic government measures that don't work again.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,253 posts, read 1,552,880 times
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I don't know about all that. Our household economics did great under Obama, and I don't expect that to change under Trump.

BTW, we were able to borrow interest free on several credit cards, and have never paid a penny in interest on them. And get great interest rates on car financing and our mortgage.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,405 posts, read 3,731,823 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
8 years of 0% interest rates, massive stimulus packages, 10 trillion dollars in deficit spending; We never reached 2% growth, the entire market turned into a game of "lets see what the fed does" no fundementals were being looked at at all. We used every government tool possible to stimulate growth and it didn't work. Without growth being at or near historic norms we will never beable to afford this level of government we have. Thankfully we now have an actual pro-growth government in place focused on things that will actually grow our economy like increasing productivity, getting government out of the way. Yes there will be a business cycle, malinvestment during the stronger years will have to be corrected but hopefully we never resort to these exotic government measures that don't work again.
Never reached 2% growth?

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/nat...gdp_glance.htm
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:02 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,905,340 times
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^^^ That was fake news manufactured by the Obama-controlled BEA. Or so some would say.

What the OP might honestly have said was that the recovery was slower than it needed to be once Republicans got control of the House in 2011. Convinced that bad economic conditions would help the GOP at the polls, they did all they could to block and frustrate economic progress. The idea of using fiscal policy as a stimulus tool for instance was the opposite of what they had in mind. That left the Fed to promote growth alone using the much weaker tools of monetary policy to do it. Party before country for the GOP once again, and hatred for Obama long before such things as rationality and common sense.

As for any battle between Keynesian and some useless heterodox economics, it's been no contest at all for quite a long time now. The fiction-creating disinformation media are the only ones pushing the corporate bandwagon of baseless populist mish-mash any more.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Boston
5,097 posts, read 1,455,542 times
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Print enough money and any economy can look good.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:32 AM
 
608 posts, read 281,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Print enough money and any economy can look good.
That is a good summary of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). From what I see the major central banks are colluding in a world-wide MMT experiment, one that would horrify Mr. Keynes. Their plan is to emit debt at whatever levels are needed to maintain full employment and create an illusion of growth even in economies where there is none.
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:54 AM
 
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Hmmm. How is an illusion of growth different from actual growth? Is this another one of those nonsense "organic" things?
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:45 AM
 
723 posts, read 399,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Hmmm. How is an illusion of growth different from actual growth? Is this another one of those nonsense "organic" things?
Actual growth or real economic growth doesn't need government stimulus money, doesn't need manipulated or artificial + suppressed interest rates, doesn't need QE programs or Fed's operation twist program.

What we have is a totally propped-up economy and markets based upon debt. So instead of having real economic growth, we have inflated economic growth and inflated asset values. Overinflated housing and medical costs are eating everyone alive as real growth doesn't occur. This manipulated upturn has destroyed the middle class and now the US dollar is declining which will make things more expensive. Already the profit margin in most businesses are dropping meaning less jobs not more in the future.

You don't even know what the difference between illusion of growth from actual growth is. Unbelievable!!!!!
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:31 PM
 
5,092 posts, read 4,359,069 times
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IMO, it's not that classical Keynesian theory is dis-proven by the past decade, but rather an attempt to apply that theory to our current situation is misguided at best.

Robert Reich's take on the slow growth of the American economy is due to the end of the Great Convergence and the resumption of the Great Divergence. Between 1940 and 1980 the profits from the economy were more evenly spread, but since 1980 the profits have been accumulating to those at the top of the economic ladder. We live in a consumer society - when consumers don't have enough disposable income then the economy grows slowly.

The trick is how to get more disposable income pushed farther down the economic ladder, without someone immediately rejecting it as "income redistribution". Trickle down economics was supposed to accomplish this, but every bit of evidence points to the failure of that hypothesis.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:17 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,905,340 times
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Well, both Reagan and Bush-43 led missions to shift income (and assets) from lower to higher rungs on the economic ladder. There are those who will refuse to recognize such efforts as "income redistribution," but the problem remains that these higher-rung people spend money more slowly than lower-rung people do. As GDP depends critically on the velocity of money, such upward redistributions are inherently contractionary.

Meanwhile, the original formulations of Keynesian economics have been revisited and modified in many ways over the ensuing 80 years. It is the way of all science to do this. It is seemingly the way of all right-wingers to mischaracterize the process.

Last edited by Pub-911; 07-11-2017 at 07:35 AM..
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