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True, so what can be done to keep speculators out of the market? Their goal is to cause panic and produce BS that cant stick to the toilet wall.. and yet people believe in it.
I don't know that 1/4 of U.S. refining capacity being offline in a hurricane is an action caused by speculators. What speculators help do is lubricate (pun intended) the market so that there are very few shortages outside of Texas and now Florida. Back in 1973-4 and May-July 1979 obtaining gas at any price was problematic since the price/speculation mechanism was disabled by government price controls.
I don't know that 1/4 of U.S. refining capacity being offline in a hurricane is an action caused by speculators. What speculators help do is lubricate (pun intended) the market so that there are very few shortages outside of Texas and now Florida. Back in 1973-4 and May-July 1979 obtaining gas at any price was problematic since the price/speculation mechanism was disabled by government price controls.
I was born in 80, so i started to drive in mid 90s. but i can remember prices were hovering around 50-80 cents for a very long time. Then war hit and boom prices started to go up and remain up. Then you get speculators telling people that the Saudis are going to cut production by 500k and later find out they produce about 500k more than predicted. They never been right, and yet we are letting them take control of the market? I mean look at what they did to the housing market.. but thats another soap box. What repercussion will happen if we just plain kick them out, and let the oil companies produce what the world demands. Put some limits that they can not stop producing to manipulate the prices..
I was born in 80, so i started to drive in mid 90s. but i can remember prices were hovering around 50-80 cents for a very long time. Then war hit and boom prices started to go up and remain up. Then you get speculators telling people that the Saudis are going to cut production by 500k and later find out they produce about 500k more than predicted. They never been right, and yet we are letting them take control of the market? I mean look at what they did to the housing market.. but thats another soap box. What repercussion will happen if we just plain kick them out, and let the oil companies produce what the world demands. Put some limits that they can not stop producing to manipulate the prices..
I don't know where you are but the rock bottom for prices was around $0.89 in 1986 and that was for leaded regular, and then $0.95 or so as 1998 turned into 1999 in the wake of financial crises in Russia and Indonesia. New Jersey had a few downward spikes to around $0.799 during 1998-9 but that's about as low as it got. Yes, a few announced but unimplemented production cuts have caused 20% of so prices increases, as did Katrina. But in the days before a functioning spot market, i.e. what you call speculators, price jumps and supply shortages were even more jarring. Fortunately you were born at the tail end of the last shortage that covered more than just a small area and long after gas lines sent people like myself (I got my license in November 1973) to the Hess station at 5:30 a.m. to await a 7:00 a.m. opening and about a 30 minute line. That line was far longer by the time the station opened.
I don't know where you are but the rock bottom for prices was around $0.89 in 1986 and that was for leaded regular, and then $0.95 or so as 1998 turned into 1999 in the wake of financial crises in Russia and Indonesia. New Jersey had a few downward spikes to around $0.799 during 1998-9 but that's about as low as it got. Yes, a few announced but unimplemented production cuts have caused 20% of so prices increases, as did Katrina. But in the days before a functioning spot market, i.e. what you call speculators, price jumps and supply shortages were even more jarring. Fortunately you were born at the tail end of the last shortage that covered more than just a small area and long after gas lines sent people like myself (I got my license in November 1973) to the Hess station at 5:30 a.m. to await a 7:00 a.m. opening and about a 30 minute line. That line was far longer by the time the station opened.
I Guess they been getting their news from "Miss Cleo" back in the day.. look how her and her business turned out. hahaha.
You can have some form of conditions, but dont base your prices on lies and things that never produce. If your producing 500mb a day and have to cut 100mb due to over stock, that is understandable. I know storage is our choke point right now. But if we can store 600mb a day and your only producing half that to keep prices high, that's manipulation in the market and should be delt with. TO me the goal is to keep storage full, while keeping production at steady rate=prices remain steady. If a country wants to stop producing less because they want more money, and another country can pick up the slack with out much increase in price, doesnt qualify for a price jump. Just tell the country no go and we will pay what the agreement is, nothing more/or less. Stop letting other countries manipulate the market as well, ( looking at you saudia)(OPEC) how many horses do ya need.
I Guess they been getting their news from "Miss Cleo" back in the day.. look how her and her business turned out. hahaha.
You can have some form of conditions, but dont base your prices on lies and things that never produce. If your producing 500mb a day and have to cut 100mb due to over stock, that is understandable. I know storage is our choke point right now. But if we can store 600mb a day and your only producing half that to keep prices high, that's manipulation in the market and should be delt with. TO me the goal is to keep storage full, while keeping production at steady rate=prices remain steady. If a country wants to stop producing less because they want more money, and another country can pick up the slack with out much increase in price, doesnt qualify for a price jump. Just tell the country no go and we will pay what the agreement is, nothing more/or less. Stop letting other countries manipulate the market as well, ( looking at you saudia)(OPEC) how many horses do ya need.
We are not going to send in the troops over a press announcement. I think we should have done that with the original OPEC blackmail in October 1973. I think at that point we kow-towed by pressuring Israel to give up parts of the Golan gained in the 1973 War and starting the pressure on Israel that led to the surrender of the Sinai (though so far that's worked out OK) and the Camp David Accords.
Jbgusa, your recollections are very accurate and match mine. Reading it was a nice trip down memory lane. I remember the 1973-74 gas lines though I was not driving at the time. I was driving during the 1979 gas lines.
Jbgusa, your recollections are very accurate and match mine. Reading it was a nice trip down memory lane. I remember the 1973-74 gas lines though I was not driving at the time. I was driving during the 1979 gas lines.
Thanks. I have a pretty bad memory but do remember that. I also think that if we didn't have price controls both the 1973-4 and 1979 disruptions would have been similar to what we just experienced with the hurricanes, with a price jump, then stability, then the prices melting downward.
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