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Old 07-12-2017, 12:22 AM
 
727 posts, read 399,195 times
Reputation: 1081

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
The reality of the world teaches us that there is no call or reason to pay off the national debt. The last time we did it was in 1836, and there was no reason to have done it then except in fulfillment of a national pledge to ourselves eventually to repay every penny of what had been borrowed to finance our War of Independence.
In the 1929-1947 Non-Growth Cycle America went from 315% Total Debt to GDP back to 110%. 110% is ground zero. Today Total Debt to GDP is about 380%. QE and ZIRP were just a stalling tactic. The idea is as long as you make it easy to service debt, then there is no crisis. But the crisis is the high debt level itself. The FED has been delaying (delaying is NOT avoiding) the inevitable, DEFLATION and DEPRESSION. We will have to pay off our debt ALL THE WAY DOWN to 110% total debt to GDP. Debt doesn't need to be fully paid off, 110% debt to GDP is ground zero.

Quote:
In any case, the US has no plans to do anything more than service the debt going forward, and neither does any other significant national economy that is carrying debt, that being virtually all of them. There are those of course who still try to apply household rules to national governments, but such a practice is in fact quite a silly one.
We have to go through the Default Crisis Stage because that is where the (global) economy is cleansed of excess, dross, waste (the economy can't grow without this stage of the process). It is a kind of Winter Kill Stage. Yes, most people like to listen to those so called ECONOMISTS who say we can avoid the Winter Kill Stage - to those who say we don't have to suffer through the Default Stage - but these voices are charlatan voices (even with their PHDs and their Nobel Prizes). Con-Men who fear losing power, and who will bankrupt the future in order to not have to face (God's judgment) the remorse of having fallen for the "Debt does not matter" lie.

WE WILL HAVE TO PAY OFF OUR DEBT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 110% DEBT TO GDP. 110% DEBT TO GDP IS GROUND ZERO!!!!!
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,259,382 times
Reputation: 5732
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Let me start this discussion by explaining that I'm not some wild-eyed paranoiac or Bible-thumper: I simply recognize that the economy, guided by the "relatively" free flow of capital via supply and demand, abhors both a vacuum and the efforts of politicians to interfere with it. And it's become increasingly clear that a large percentage of California's public officials, and their clientele, don't want to acknowledge this.

We know where a lot of the "time bombs" are ticking away -- a vastly underfunded public pension system, an over-hyped real estate market, and a growing portion of the general population with little, or no "skin in the game". And without sinking to personal rancor, I want to point out, as I have in other posts, that our neighbor nation to the South has functioned for almost ninety years under a faux "democracy" that in reality is not.

The Golden State is not alone in this; the City of Chicago, in particular, with much more of a "hard case" reputation, is similarly losing its ability to function, and the disease is spreading to the entire state of Illinois; and with the election of Donald Trump, the polarization continues to intensify.

And please, let's try to hold the discussion to socio-economic consequences rather than partisan bickering.
Make a list of states that are in the same boat as CA. IL, NJ, NY etc.
It follows a pattern.
There isn't a single example of socialism functioning anywhere in the world, yet they persist.
THere is no reasoning with them because they are beyond reason.
I grew up in a socialist country, I don't waste my time talking to them because I know they lack sentience, I am talking to a clock. In the end its better to understand than to be understood because they refuse to comprehend fact.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,259,382 times
Reputation: 5732
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
California doesn't fail because of their state government. That's what many people don't get. Unlike some states that look for their governments to lead, California relegates their government to janitorial, clean up the mess things.

SoCal is the centerpiece for entertainment and it's distribution. Music, movies, television and all the related content and production behind it happens in California, which chooses project work for anywhere else in the world. It's unlikely to be dethroned anytime soon.

Rural California produces crops few other places in the world can. The land of fruits and nuts delivers higher per acre profits than anywhere else in the world....assuming they have water. They also have one of the world's leading wine production areas, timber, marijuana and a host of visit-worthy tourist sites. Cowshwitz may be scary, but it's also one of the most productive cattle raising areas around. The hills still contain mineral wealth and the rocks below still have oil. The steady supply of sunshine promises to eventually become a cheap source of energy for all.

NorCal is the centerpiece of technology development. There's simply no other place on Earth where more ideas can get funded. That promise draws the best talent from around the world. That creates some of the most innovative companies in the world, which in turn draws in other companies that want to keep abreast of the changes in the field.

The area is highly cyclical, which makes its government budgets impossible to keep straight, but so long as the moderate Dems can keep the Bernie Dems from spending everything in these good years, and the populace doesn't go nuts and try and secede from the union, California's going to be fine for many years. Innovation isn't cheap or guaranteed, but it does bring nice paying jobs.
And CA tax drives them out again.
Same as CT, industry flees from the fleas.
Same as NY.
Ditto NJ.

A pattern is a consistent coincidence to the blind.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:32 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,905,340 times
Reputation: 3782
It is only what perverted reactionaries will call "socialism" that has had any meaningful or durable success in the world in the past century and more.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,259,382 times
Reputation: 5732
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickofDiamonds View Post
That may be why the words "In God we trust" is on all of our currency.
Somehow it's all turns out good until someone decides that we need to go to war and everyone believes that God is on their side.
But, the bottom line is always that there is a lot of room in heaven.
Its a simple concept to test, God is on the side of freedom because freedom is the natural state for mankind.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:28 AM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,222,835 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Make a list of states that are in the same boat as CA. IL, NJ, NY etc.
It follows a pattern.
There isn't a single example of socialism functioning anywhere in the world, yet they persist.
THere is no reasoning with them because they are beyond reason.
I grew up in a socialist country, I don't waste my time talking to them because I know they lack sentience, I am talking to a clock. In the end its better to understand than to be understood because they refuse to comprehend fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
And CA tax drives them out again.
Same as CT, industry flees from the fleas.
Same as NY.
Ditto NJ.

A pattern is a consistent coincidence to the blind.
Do you have anything to add except bitter partisan rhethoric with no research? Quite frankly it would be a wonderful idea if CA, and NY just stopped paying federal taxes. Than you nut jobs will see how much they mean to this country.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Ohio
18,012 posts, read 13,238,246 times
Reputation: 13786
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
And please, let's try to hold the discussion to socio-economic consequences rather than partisan bickering.
The socio-economic consequences are obvious: The State raises taxes, both household and disposable income decline, job losses mount, taxes are increased, both household and disposable income decline, taxes are increased....

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong7 View Post
First off, if California were to collapse I would think the federal government would work out some sort of bailout since this single state makes up 1/6th of the entire nation's GDP.
A bailout would only serve to encourage reckless spending by the States. The people of California created the mess they're in, now they have to suffer the consequences.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:38 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,342 posts, read 2,609,796 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The socio-economic consequences are obvious: The State raises taxes, both household and disposable income decline, job losses mount, taxes are increased, both household and disposable income decline, taxes are increased....



A bailout would only serve to encourage reckless spending by the States. The people of California created the mess they're in, now they have to suffer the consequences.
... ?? Sorry, but what mess did they exactly create?
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:39 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,222,835 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Whether the area is a "backwater", or a blighted area of a larger city or state, the problem is essentially the same: a large portion of that community unmotivated and sinking into the trap of drugs, petty crime, and public-sector dependency. And the public sector has no motivation to address the root causes; but only to seek a bigger staff and budget to address a bigger "problem".

Control needs to be returned to the lowest possible level; when the relative handful of the most abusive are identified and well-known (Yes, SJWs, we know you'll scream "Racism!", " Xenophobia!" or whatever buzzword is handy), that handful of dead weight can then be address by the criminal justice system.
So we should just move the funds into the criminal justice system? Great.

I've never seen a state receive more vitriol than California and of course it is motivated by politics.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,369 posts, read 6,786,875 times
Reputation: 14412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
It is only what perverted reactionaries will call "socialism" that has had any meaningful or durable success in the world in the past century and more.
Do you consider the socialism of Clement Atlee and Harold Wilson, which was running Great Britain into the ground before the emergence of Margaret Thatcher, a "success"?
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