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Old 07-28-2017, 08:34 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,906,546 times
Reputation: 3782

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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the middle class, especially those paying AMT or self employment taxes, are the ones taking it in the shorts the hardest.
Hahahahaha! Pity the poor victims of the AMT! I'll agree that's its a big hassle to have to fill out a 6251, but if you think of that as hardship, you are way off in the deep end!

Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
I've been poor before. Taxes weren't that big of a deal.
Who cares? The facts are that payroll, excise, and state & local taxes are heavily regressive. The poor pay those taxes disproportionately. End of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
Social Security...well, it's invested...in Federal debt...that there's no funds to repay.
Way to misunderstand even the very basics of investing. Lesson #1 -- US Treasuries are the safest, most secure investment vehicle in the history of the world. They are the yardstick by which the safety and security of everything else is measured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
Medicare is the scarier part anyway.
That's true, but only because SS is so well off.
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Gainesville, FL
190 posts, read 195,637 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
The facts are that payroll, excise, and state & local taxes are heavily regressive. The poor pay those taxes disproportionately.
(bolding mine)

Ok, and?
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Gainesville, FL
190 posts, read 195,637 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Police protect the property and privileges of the wealthy. That's their job.
Police don't 'protect' anything unless you mean by their existence people are dissuaded from stealing, raping and murdering due to the perceived consequence of being arrested. Doesn't stop the theft, rape or murder when it does happen, though.
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:29 AM
 
7,356 posts, read 4,430,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Who cares? The facts are that payroll, excise, and state & local taxes are heavily regressive. The poor pay those taxes disproportionately. End of story.
Payroll taxes are regressive; income taxes are not.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:27 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,906,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Payroll taxes are regressive; income taxes are not.
Yes, federal income taxes are the only reliably progressive taxes that we have. The rest tend to be regressive and hence disproportionately paid by poorer people. That's kind of what regressive means.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Gainesville, FL
190 posts, read 195,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Yes, federal income taxes are the only reliably progressive taxes that we have. The rest tend to be regressive and hence disproportionately paid by poorer people. That's kind of what regressive means.
Way to talk past their point and also make an assumption by invoking "federal" when you specifically stated "state" and "local" in your original post which could very well (very likely?) also be income based.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:48 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,906,546 times
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There was no point to talk past. There was only a restatement of what I had posted earlier.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Gainesville, FL
190 posts, read 195,637 times
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Old 07-28-2017, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,756 posts, read 1,211,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
There was no point to talk past. There was only a restatement of what I had posted earlier.
The bulk of taxation is not regressive. We agree income tax is progressive. We may still disagree that AMT eventually becomes a non-factor. As for the others, they are all proportional. Would you want a tax system that labels people as poor, medium or rich for everything? Oh, Mr. Poor person, your groceries are a 5% rate. Oh, Mr. Rich person, your groceries are a 10% rate? Insert the same for vehicle registrations or property taxes. These are proportional. If you have 4 cars, you pay 4 registrations. If you buy 20% more stuff, you'll pay 20% more in taxes.

The only tax that is actually regressive is the SS portion of the FICA tax as it gets capped. The reason it gets capped is there will be no benefit to the people who are making income above it. That income group will get their social security check, and have it taken back again come income tax time. As it's supposed to be an old age insurance, not a retirement scheme, that makes sense. Even then, it's still proportional to what you make up to x. Further, while it must be paid, the Feds have offset this with the earned income credit.

The very poor don't, at net, pay much, if anything in taxes. Don't take that the wrong way, in my opinion I'm fine with that. However the facts do not support that the poor pay the most in taxes. It's simply not setup that way.
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Gainesville, FL
190 posts, read 195,637 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
The very poor don't, at net, pay much, if anything in taxes. Don't take that the wrong way, in my opinion I'm fine with that. However the facts do not support that the poor pay the most in taxes. It's simply not setup that way.
You forgot the keyword 'disproportionate".
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