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Old 08-09-2017, 12:12 AM
 
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Building codes are necessary for safety -- fire control, functional sewage systems, structures that won't fall down, etc.

But a big chunk of any city's land use code exists to force larger housing and keep the poor folks out. I mean parking requirements, bedroom-size requirements, and sometimes enormous overall square footage requirements.

For those of us that can afford today's housing, that's all fine. But for the poor...a lot of people would take less square footage -- much less, for some -- if it meant not living in a shelter, or having five roommates, or never moving away from their parents, or not commuting an hour each way.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:24 AM
 
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The worst of all possible worlds would have no zoning ordinances.

And envious whiners have no natural or otherwise justifiable claims of entitlement to live anywhere they like, or dine anywhere they like, or vacation anywhere they like, or to have or enjoy any number of other things counted among the finer things in life. Equality of outcome isn't supposed to be in your playbook. Rip that page out right now.

Last edited by Pub-911; 08-09-2017 at 07:37 AM..
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
Building codes are necessary for safety -- fire control, functional sewage systems, structures that won't fall down, etc.

But a big chunk of any city's land use code exists to force larger housing and keep the poor folks out. I mean parking requirements, bedroom-size requirements, and sometimes enormous overall square footage requirements.

For those of us that can afford today's housing, that's all fine. But for the poor...a lot of people would take less square footage -- much less, for some -- if it meant not living in a shelter, or having five roommates, or never moving away from their parents, or not commuting an hour each way.

What are "maximum unrelated occupancy" ordinances for? Are four brothers living in a house somehow safer than four non-siblings in the same house?
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
What are "maximum unrelated occupancy" ordinances for? Are four brothers living in a house somehow safer than four non-siblings in the same house?
LOL! Blindered much? Consider the problem of 14 "cousins" living in the same 2-bedroom house, each person with one or more vehicles that end up exhausting available on-street parking for an entire neighborhood. Living in the dire conditions that you so regularly report here, I should not have had to outline this problem for you.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
9,456 posts, read 7,611,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
More to the point... they would proactively build (aka develop) mill houses and such to be within a reasonable
walking distance of the no/low skill jobs the people there had ...and these employers needed done.

The difference TODAY in most cities is that much of, too much of, the existing housing in reasonable
proximity to most jobs are inhabited by the same sort of no/low skill people as in Smith's day...
but TODAY the jobs in reasonable proximity are of the high and specialized skill sort.

It creates a highly inefficient allocation of assets.
Smith would see that in a heartbeat and be first in line with the practical remedy needed.

Isn't Mark Zuckerberg talking about creating housing for his workers because the government won't install mass transit for his underpaid workers that can't afford to live close to his campus?
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Long ago, the good people of Boulder, Colorado decided that they would improve the quality of life for their then largely "alternative" residents by creating a green zone around this fair city and limiting residential development to a fixed number of acres. Thirty-forty years later, they found they had created an upper-class heaven, far above the means of those who had created it, and wondered what happened when housing prices soared and affluent new-comers scraped old "affordable" homes off small lots and replaced them with huge mansions.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:44 PM
 
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They should bulldoze it all and build a mix of shacks, shanties, and dilapidated tenements. Housing costs would almost surely become much more affordable.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:19 PM
 
12,404 posts, read 9,221,478 times
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Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Okay but was the capitalism of antiquity moral in practice or is this something we like to pretend existed? ......Going even further the pre-modern capitalism must have included the slave trade so how are we somehow worse than before? I think the posit of a moral capitalism is one of a never existing ideal from another era.
But what we have now is not just capitalism, it is capitalism with legal restraints. Slavery is illegal.

You need to decide whether your question is specifically about capitalism by itself or is instead about society as a whole.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, AUSTINtx
3,458 posts, read 5,097,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
But what we have now is not just capitalism, it is capitalism with legal restraints. Slavery is illegal.

You need to decide whether your question is specifically about capitalism by itself or is instead about society as a whole.
I was saying that in the past when it was legal and human beings were a commodity that that version of market forces was not moral. Fast forward to the affordable housing/gentrification debate framed by some as "immoral" when in fact these forces are, for the most part, acting within the law. I think the council member's POV is that while the actions that contribute to the problem may be technically legal, they are in his eyes immoral. My point and others on this thread is that if anything the "invisible hand of the marketplace" should be considered 'amoral' which brings about an entirely different discussion.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:32 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,751,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
LOL! Blindered much? Consider the problem of 14 "cousins" living in the same 2-bedroom house, each person with one or more vehicles that end up exhausting available on-street parking for an entire neighborhood. Living in the dire conditions that you so regularly report here, I should not have had to outline this problem for you.

No problem; in Michigan, overnight parking restrictions are the norm, usually 2a to 5a. You can have all the cars you want, you just can't park them on the street overnight. And private property parking is allowed only on driveways and in carports and garages, so there's no parking on the front or side lawn either.
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