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Old 08-17-2017, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,811 posts, read 9,519,270 times
Reputation: 15160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Exactly.

Listening to some of these people talk about taxes is hilarious.

"I really think we need to reduce the admin costs in healthcare. We can just perform surgery with some scissors. A few snips and close it up with some string. Easy and done! They're out in 10 minutes"
What does the administrative costs of health care have to do with the performance of a medical procedure such as surgery?
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:15 PM
 
8,946 posts, read 2,467,601 times
Reputation: 8369
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
If you think other countries have better mobility then move there. What you wrote discount the fact that millions of immigrants, both legal and non legal, still want to come here. Why?
I won the lottery by birth. Why should I move anywhere. But I had one dirt-poor friend who ended up moving to Japan (teaching English) and marrying and living there. I know others who have moved to Norway and even back to Ireland. Although the N. Ireland economy is not booming, at least she got basic health care.

No one is discounting any "fact". What they are saying is that measurements matter. If we only talk about the fact that we landed on the moon we do a disservice to the astronauts who died trying.

I didn't make up the mobility statistics. But from my visits to Denmark I can assure you that the average joe or jane has a much better life due to more equality. Notice I said "Average". The CEO of a Danish firm may play a lot of golf, but he still lives in a "normal" house in a normal neighborhood.

Furthermore a CEO (usually called "Director" in Denmark) will come right out and say they believe in their system of "redistribution" to their employees, friends and neighbors. They feel good about establishing a non-violent civil society where the heroes are engineers.....not billionaires and con men.
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:19 PM
 
8,946 posts, read 2,467,601 times
Reputation: 8369
Quote:
Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
Have you studied the most-recent IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin? I have.

For 2015, the total tax liability of those by adjusted gross income (last number reported at bottom on page 1 of IRS Form 1040), was as follows:

Less than $30,000 of adjusted gross income - 25.1% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 1.8% of all tax returns filed.

Less than $100,000 of adjusted gross income - 75.6% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 20.4% of all tax returns filed.

Over $250,000 of adjusted gross income - 4.2% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 51.6% of all tax returns filed.

So, to whom has the tax burden been shifted? Use statistics and not rhetoric please.
Really cool trick you pulled there......

Can you rework the numbers so that it shows this:

--the total amount of taxes PAID to city, state, fed, ss, medicare and even sales tax as a PERCENTAGE OF THEIR TOTAL INCOME by the various classes.

Was Buffet lying when he said his secretary pays a higher rate than he does. I checked for myself and I pay a higher rate than Wall Street Hedge Fund billionaires.

Note - one MAJOR reason your "math" is not logical is this....we are NOT paying the bills now (see the 20 TRILLION dollar debt). So therefore the only real question is who is going to pay the higher PERCENTAGE now.

You appears to wish for the working person to pay....effectively paying for the wars, tax cuts and other benefits which they don't see.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:39 PM
 
1,048 posts, read 568,524 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by borninsac View Post
Have you studied the most-recent IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin? I have.

For 2015, the total tax liability of those by adjusted gross income (last number reported at bottom on page 1 of IRS Form 1040), was as follows:

Less than $30,000 of adjusted gross income - 25.1% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 1.8% of all tax returns filed.

Less than $100,000 of adjusted gross income - 75.6% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 20.4% of all tax returns filed.

Over $250,000 of adjusted gross income - 4.2% of all tax returns filed reported total tax liability of 51.6% of all tax returns filed.

So, to whom has the tax burden been shifted? Use statistics and not rhetoric please.
BornInSAC, When they determined which troops would go with which wave onto the beaches of Normandy, No one implied those from families that paid lesser taxes could go on later (less dangerous) waves, because the others have a greater personal stake in the survival and prosperity of our nation.
No one implied those from families that paid more taxes, could go on later (less dangerous) waves because the families of others should now compensate for their lack of financial support by risking more on behalf of our nation.

Families with incomes of a quarter million dollars or more are being abused by their 35% federal tax bracket? The median effective tax among them is very significantly less than that 35%.

The plights of the wealth do not particularly evoke my tears.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Close to an earthquake
890 posts, read 629,882 times
Reputation: 2384
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rhetoric

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/statistics
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:08 AM
 
25,905 posts, read 49,904,625 times
Reputation: 19378
I don't really get any tax deductions and taxes across the board are my biggest expense...

Business will still have deductions to offset revenue...
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Old 08-18-2017, 02:39 AM
 
62 posts, read 20,808 times
Reputation: 86
Sounds an awful lot like a bunch of folks on here are looking for a federal tax increase. If they get rid of any deduction, that will result in more taxes paid, unless it is balanced with an increase in the standard deduction or an entirely new tax schedule.

Consider me a skeptic when it comes to "plans" that are expected to reduce taxes. LOL
First show me that the government is actually cutting spending, so that it all doesn't go to the deficit.
Then prove that my effective tax rate doesn't actually go up.

Under the plans recently floated where deductions like mortgage interest are eliminated with a subsequent doubling of the standard deduction, I personally would pay less tax, unless they change the brackets at the same time! I seriously doubt that the US government can pass any measure at this point that is not revenue neutral. Zero sum at that point. Some will come out ahead and some will pay more.

Who wants to pay more?
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:35 AM
 
3,787 posts, read 1,692,906 times
Reputation: 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Really cool trick you pulled there......

Can you rework the numbers so that it shows this:

--the total amount of taxes PAID to city, state, fed, ss, medicare and even sales tax as a PERCENTAGE OF THEIR TOTAL INCOME by the various classes.

Was Buffet lying when he said his secretary pays a higher rate than he does. I checked for myself and I pay a higher rate than Wall Street Hedge Fund billionaires.

Note - one MAJOR reason your "math" is not logical is this....we are NOT paying the bills now (see the 20 TRILLION dollar debt). So therefore the only real question is who is going to pay the higher PERCENTAGE now.

You appears to wish for the working person to pay....effectively paying for the wars, tax cuts and other benefits which they don't see.
They should eliminate the capital gains rate, too. Then the hedge fund guys and Warren Buffet would pay much higher rates.

Why should one form of income be given preferential treatment? Doing this would eliminate a lot of Wall St. shenanigans. A lot of dubious corporate practices would disappear too. I believe it would improve corporate governance as well. A shareholder would think much harder about a CEO's claim that he should re-invest the shareholder's profits if the shareholder didn't have the lure of lower taxed capital gains to sway him.
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Old 08-18-2017, 10:24 AM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,921,865 times
Reputation: 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronn View Post
Who wants to pay more?
In the event of a need for enhanced revenue, the better question would be "Who can AFFORD to pay more?"
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:42 PM
 
8,946 posts, read 2,467,601 times
Reputation: 8369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
In the event of a need for enhanced revenue, the better question would be "Who can AFFORD to pay more?"
That's easy. Congress and the Fed can afford to print more money, lower more interest rates and add to the debt....therefore "paying" more whilst giving billionaires what they most desire in life...the ability to think that they stand alone and deserve not to contribute to our national and society.
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