U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-21-2017, 10:54 AM
 
5 posts, read 2,073 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

Another war, so do be careful what you wish for. During WWII most production grinded to a halt and factories were retooled to make airplanes, ships, guns, military vehicles and parts to fight the war. Every facet of manufacturing, even food (rations) went to aid, clothe and feed a hungry army. Everyone sacrificed, as we were pulled into the war quickly after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, were ill prepared. After the war America had a lot of catching up to do on the homefront and maximized their efforts to bring vehicles, goods and housing to Americans, thus the good economy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-21-2017, 11:03 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
While I will agree with you that the device can replace all of those things, that has nothing to do with the service. The $100/month for 2 smart phones on a plan was an estimate for the cost of service, not the cost of the device. I have an old iphone at home that my daughter uses and it does all of those things, but is not connected to a wireless carrier. It just relies on my wifi.
Of course. I'm just saying that the cost savings aren't one sided. And some of the items need to be replaced or maintained with recurring costs overtime as well. I'm just playing devils advocate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 11:12 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by EllenLind View Post
Another war, so do be careful what you wish for. During WWII most production grinded to a halt and factories were retooled to make airplanes, ships, guns, military vehicles and parts to fight the war. Every facet of manufacturing, even food (rations) went to aid, clothe and feed a hungry army. Everyone sacrificed, as we were pulled into the war quickly after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, were ill prepared. After the war America had a lot of catching up to do on the homefront and maximized their efforts to bring vehicles, goods and housing to Americans, thus the good economy.
Not to mention, we have to factor in the population issues rivals had. While we had a baby boom, they had a generation of dead men.

In 1940, we were given all of the state scientific and technology secrets of the British empire in the Tizard mission. "The most valuable cargo to ever reach the American shore". We were given German scientific knowledge by defecting scientists (before and after the war). In operation paper clip alone, the u.s government took 1600 German scientists. The economic and scientific advancement from these events cannot be understated.

The British pound was replaced finally as the worlds dominant reserve currency , after the u.s economy had already passed Britain some 50 years earlier. The u.s was able to set up, with veto power, nearly every economic and political body to its advantage as the world leader (imf, un, world bank, wto)."Leader of the free world" to stop the soviet..."menace". The reigns of an English speaking empire were peacefully transitioned to the United States, who today still maintains a web of more than 1000 foreign military bases. With a dominant navy, and an arsenal of nuclear weapons that left the nation impervious to invasion.

The United States was a world power on pace to pass all others anyways. Ww2 pushed the advantage to unimaginable heights, at the same time competition was smashed.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 08-21-2017 at 12:14 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,437 posts, read 15,036,253 times
Reputation: 11924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
It never cease to amaze me the obsession people have with the 1950's on C-D. No, the economic prosperity of the 1950's was indeed an anomaly brought together by a set of circumstances that have a slim and none chance of happening again. People need to learn to adapt to change instead of sitting on their butts complaining how things were so much better in the past and finding scapegoats like "immigrants" and "globalists" for their personal and society's failures.

I wonder if people were this ineffectual and whiny when the industrial revolution happened and slowly changed agrilculture.
It also wasn't even that prosperous.

It was a huge expansion in prosperity but we're better off today except for a few areas. The big one is housing. Housing is just much more expensive now than it was in the '50s or '60s. The other big one is healthcare. That's not directly comparable though as healthcare is much better today than it was in the '50s or '60s... it's just also much more expensive. Recently you have college tuition but that's a bit of a misnomer as most people don't pay out of pocket for anywhere near the full cost. Much of the rise in tuition is just squeezing air around the balloon. Eg, with the recession California cut subsidies to junior colleges and public universities so they had to raise tuition. But then need-based aid increased so the actual impact for most people was pretty minimal. I mean, junior college used to be free in California up until 1984. Today tuition is $1,104. You could say that's more expensive, but the reality is it might be cheaper. I don't have data for 1980 or 1960 to say. Average grant aid was is $4,843 with 77% receiving grants. For most people junior college the actual tuition is -$3,700. So yeah, you can get cheaper than free. Most people going to junior college in California literally being paid to go to school. Not a whole lot, but the grants more than cover tuition and books and leave a small stipend of 1-2k left over.

Unemployment was 50% higher in 1958 than today. Fifty percent higher.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,437 posts, read 15,036,253 times
Reputation: 11924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveswater_outdoors View Post
They all worked in factories and were able to raise a family of 4 on that wage. That or they made a living in the military. If you knew anything about economics you would know the median wage has been dropping vs the rate of inflation for several decades now. We get more schooling to make less money on average than ever. We also work more hours, and pay more of our pay share to rent than ever before.
Except they haven't. They've been stagnant for several decades though.
For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center

Last few years we've seen a bit of an increase. The major difference in prosperity is more from that a much greater percentage of the population is in the labor force today than in 1950. That is the number of women has more than offset the lower labor force participation rate of men and the fact that we retire earlier today than in 1950 so there's lower labor force participation in the 60-64 bracket than there was in 1950. On the other hand, if you look at household income that's been declining more recently. That's not so much to do with wages declining as they haven't been. It's because people get married later and get divorced much more often now than the '70s. Thus you end up with fewer two-income households and more one-income households which is the predominant driver of dropping household real income.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2002/05/art2full.pdf

Nifty chart on page 7.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,747 posts, read 1,207,954 times
Reputation: 5047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleinie View Post
For our time, what would need to be done for your average joe to have the same opportunities today as one would have had in the 1950s?
Massive expansion in space colonization. Something where the entire supply chain would need to be re-engineered for different circumstances and the government calling it tech to keep it within the borders. In order for that to work, there would have to be a significant economic incentive (real not government subsidized) to want to invest in space. Same could be said for the ocean floor.

Supply chains are critical in developing a comparative advantage over another area. The US had several advantages in the 1950's. They were the world's bank and financed rebuilding around the world. They had unrivalled industry in the US. They had pent up domestic demand from the war to fulfill. They had a huge migration into suburbia and infrastructure projects to create it. They were also able to buy at the lowest cost, as all countries wanted to do business with the US. The country had a ready supply of labor, but not too much. The universities were some of the best. Culturally, there were fewer divisions, though some were horrendous.

A lot of those comparative advantages have gone away or even become weaknesses. To be like that again we need comparative advantages to doing business in the USA. We can try and enforce artificial ones, such as tariffs, or we can pull together and develop something within the government that can't be spread to other countries. Not an easy task.

It reminds me of a ladybug yesterday. I had left a glass outside on the deck and it was busily following the rim of the glass....around and around. It was still there doing it for hours as I let it walk and checked during the day. After about 4 hours it was gone. It finally left the rut it had created for itself. Politics of late has been like that. Constant coverage makes straying from a path hard to justify. Indeed, it's quite risky to forge a new path and more often than not ends in failure. I don't think there will be a return of those days, but there is a possibility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 02:55 PM
 
8,376 posts, read 7,362,552 times
Reputation: 18234
It has been well summed up already, but lets look at it in total. To give the same amount of opportunities today for the average Joe, as in the past the following would have to happen.

1---A real big one. Countries around the world outside the United States, would have cut back their manufacturing to the point they were in the 1950s as a percentage of the world market.

2---The USA would have to again be the major manufacturing company in the world, while other countries were still be in disarray, recovering for being at war, and many of them recovering from being occupied by a foreign power.

3---A lot of women would have to quit their jobs, and go back to being stay at home wives and mothers, reducing the percentage of them in the work place.

4---We would have to go back to a more primitive way of doing things. Example: In 1950 telephone operators were almost all women, and were badly needed to fill those jobs. If we had the same type telephone systems we had then, there are not enough women employed in the workplace to fill the telephone operator jobs. Just think, no women would be engineers, etc., etc. The women especially do not want to have to give up their good jobs to be telephone operators.

5---We would at company level, see huge secretarial pools again, and a lot of other low pay jobs that no longer exist.

6---A big percentage of better paid jobs today, would have to be done away with. Any job involved with computers, etc., which greatly reduce the needs for work forces, and the computer jobs themselves, would go away and their workers have to find other types of jobs.

To bring back the job opportunities of the 1950s, those 6 things and a few more would have to happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,296,137 times
Reputation: 13648
I think the OP is asking how we'd make a 1950s economy work today, not what made it work in 1950.

Well, to bring us to a 1950s economy today, you'd have to drop CEO pay by a couple thousand percent, lower housing costs, lower college tuitions, lower food costs, lower the costs of buying a car, lower gas prices, and of course, lower wages. I think if you did that, though, most people would definitely see more buying power. There would still be cell phones and computers and cable TV, but only the rich could afford that.

We'd need to have many more manufacturing jobs here, many more farmers, and our population would have to shift out to the rural areas more. And we'd have to see much less immigration of unskilled workers and also eradicate the drug and gang problem.

Health care would have to be cheaper, but people without money wouldn't be able to afford the life-saving procedures they do now. I'd be dead. LOL

There would have to be an attitude adjustment, of course. Smaller houses are a given. Certain foods would no longer be available all the time. We might have to eat foods that are in season. Jobs wouldn't be as numerous per the number of people in the country, but that's such an up and down part of the economy, I'm not sure it matters a whole lot. There would have to be way less suing over everything.

But even if we had an economy equal to the 50s right now, we'd be bogged down by expenses that those in the 50s never would have imagined. Gangs and drugs cost this country billions, not to mention the AIDS crisis, or the antibiotics crisis, or the TB resurgence or resurgence of bedbugs, Lyme disease, and others. And today we're aware of what it takes to keep our water and air clean, and sometimes that's not cheap. Plus we're facing more extreme weather, hotter summers, longer droughts, and more people live in disaster prone areas. So when something happens to that area, more people need help than they ever did. And some of our disasters have been huge in the last 60 years: Katrina, Sandy, Andrew, the Mississippi floods of 1993, some of the unprecedented tornado outbreaks, some of the massive fires we've had in the West, things like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,116 posts, read 9,202,467 times
Reputation: 8988
Abolish socialism, repeal all socialist taxes, end limited liability for corporations and their investors, and recognize private mediums of exchange as legal tender.

That will do it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2017, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,151 posts, read 26,611,024 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
Yes, indeed. In the garage I have a 40 something year old American made GE fridge that I inherited from a deceased relative. Thing has run non stop for all that time to this day. Nothing you buy today, even the high end models will last that long. Planned obsolescence is a very real thing.
Yep, I still use a blender my mom bought that dates back to at least the early-1950s. Also a few clocks about that old.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top