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Old 08-24-2017, 02:23 AM
 
62 posts, read 20,539 times
Reputation: 86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
We have an income tax system that nearly 50% of the population DOESN'T pay into, and those that do pay into the system face rates of up to nearly 40%. How much more progressive do you think the system should be?

Does your 50% include children, prisoners, elderly living on almost nothing, homemakers?
I think it does and that makes this stat disingenuous.

Facing rates "of up to nearly 40%" is not indicative of effective tax rate. I personally face up to nearly 30%, my effective tax rate has hovered at 10% for years.

But, I think you know both these things.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:50 AM
 
62 posts, read 20,539 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Folks, you need to realize that our country has been hijacked by Criminals. The entire system is rotten. Our economy has been dead since 2001 and can't grow again unless we destroy bad debt first, unless we go thru Deflation and Depression. This is the TRUTH, everything else is just a lie and illusion.

Our elite is afraid to lose their power and wealth. They are protecting status quo knowing that real economic growth is not possible. They don't care that our country is being destroyed, plundered by adding more debt and with socializm. They don't care that our kids have no future. It's all about protecting their status and wealth.

Our real enemies are domestic enemies, Janet Yellen is our public enemy number 1 and the Fed. We are living in a year 2017, Americans deserve better system and quality of life then this current bank tyranny and modern age debt slavery.

We don't need to live like this, this system is sick. Everything is illusion. We can end this sick and predatory system of we are together as a team. We are all Americans, we should be all one team. This crazy system made us all sick, sick in the head. This me, me and me mentality that started with Regan administration.

It's time to wake up and save our country for our kids. We xNt continue pretending that debt doesn't matter, keep adding more and more debt. We need to take our real medicine=higher and higher interest rates that will take is thru Deflation and Depression. We need to lower prices in everything and allow our citizens to SAVE money risk free. Reward all citizens and not just speculators and the rich.

You people need to wake up!!!!!!!!
Paying down our debt and balancing the budget do not require "deflation and depression". There may be "some" repricing of assets when the federal government cuts spending. And as rates rise. But, putting millions and millions out of work is not some solution.

People are currently able to save money "risk free" (albeit saving at low income levels has ALWAYS been difficult) , but no one is entitled to high investment returns without taking risk.

Yellen is doing nothing but watching inflation and unemployment in order to raise rates without damaging growth. I understand it is attractive to people on fixed incomes to want a scapegoat (the FED) and dream of deflation that will make their limited resources go much further. But the actual consequences of depression and deflation are much more far reaching than your post seems to consider. And asset repricing may occur without either depression or deflation.

I believe you are making a mistake by assuming that high interest rates are the "medicine" or would result in anything other than a different kind of damage.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:15 AM
 
721 posts, read 398,145 times
Reputation: 1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronn View Post
Paying down our debt and balancing the budget do not require "deflation and depression". There may be "some" repricing of assets when the federal government cuts spending. And as rates rise. But, putting millions and millions out of work is not some solution.

People are currently able to save money "risk free" (albeit saving at low income levels has ALWAYS been difficult) , but no one is entitled to high investment returns without taking risk.

Yellen is doing nothing but watching inflation and unemployment in order to raise rates without damaging growth. I understand it is attractive to people on fixed incomes to want a scapegoat (the FED) and dream of deflation that will make their limited resources go much further. But the actual consequences of depression and deflation are much more far reaching than your post seems to consider. And asset repricing may occur without either depression or deflation.

I believe you are making a mistake by assuming that high interest rates are the "medicine" or would result in anything other than a different kind of damage.
Low interest rates are biggest SCAM perpetuated to American public. It's CRIMINAL to keep rates so low for all those years. Would you lend your own money for 2% interest to someone????? I don't think so. Currently Wall Street Crooks, big corporations and the rich can virtually recieve free money while everyone else has been played. This is welfare for the rich, socialism for the rich. The entire system is rotten and criminal. Who told you people that this is normal? This is NOT normal, everything since 2001 is a SCAM.

Majority of our citizens are suffering, homeless population is out of control in many cities and our economy is still just moseying along slow enough to make life miserable for many. Sadly more and more people are not looking at the official unemployment number. If you want to see the employment slack look at the employment level over the total population. It is quite sad and is the reason why people have meddled with official unemployment numbers so much. The truth hurts. Over 40% of the population is not working.

THE FED is our PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1. This central bank needs to be abolished and dismantled. Debt Slavery needs to end in America. We live in a year 2017. Majority of our citizens DESERVE better system than this current one that is CRIMINAL!!!!!!

It is very hard for me to watch America being sabotaged from within. We are sabotaging our economy, our democracy from within while the world watch, and laughs. Americans are hardworking people and they are played by its own Elite and Wall Street Banks that have turned majority of our citizens into DEBT SLAVES. How sick do you have to be in order to think that this system, this way of life is normal??????? That this is so how game should be played. What game?????? This is sick and disgusting!!!!! Our doctors and entire medical field is getting rich by people's misfortunes and health. This is sick, no one wants to be a doctor to heal people it's all about the money. Our entire way of life is sick. You people need to wake up.

Me, me and me mentality that started with Regan administration has turned us into MONSTERS. No other nation worships money and material things so much like we do. We are obsessed with money, we wake up in the morning thinking about the money, during the day we think about the money and before we go to sleep we think about the money. This is SICK!!!!!!! There is no cure for GREED!!!!!!

We need to raise interest rates and allow our citizens to save money and to lower prices in everything, especially housing and medical care.

Last edited by C2BP; 08-24-2017 at 03:26 AM..
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,115 posts, read 9,199,435 times
Reputation: 8983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronn View Post
I know what inflation is. In many ways I get more for my dollar than ever before. [dollar bills are not dollars, btw]

$2 gasoline, amazing cars for under $20K, the average American lives better than ever before. Not seeing the problem. Making $50 a week and paying $75 month for rent is no different than making $500/wk and paying $750/mo. [You may believe that is true, but check the data] In 1933 you had nothing to spend money on anyhow. [Are you a comedian?] A crackly radio was the height of technology and

Gold is not magical.[And who said it was?] Just another commodity [except that pesky USCON says otherwise]. Currency is nothing more than an exchange medium [and a great way to rob the masses]. Numbers are relative. Not going down the Libertarian rabbit hole. [mistaken assumption]
There is no correlation between the marketplace of all goods and services and the money token supply, whatever is being used.
As long as the producer cannot create new mediums of exchange, he is constrained by the finite volume and value of the existing supply.

Frankly, there is a huge misunderstanding about money, promulgated by those who wish to keep us docile.

Ironically, most Americans believe that government “prints up money.” In fact, Congress has no power to create money. It only can coin money (stamp bullion) and borrow money. If it had the power to create money, why would it need to borrow it? And if it can’t create money, it can’t grant that power to anyone else.

So exactly what did the Federal Reserve “loan” to Congress, to rack up owing 19+ trillion dollars (not “dollar bills”)? Especially, since the world supply of gold only amounts to $108 billion dollars (if all of it was coined pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792). Of course, no one can question the validity of the public debt, pursuant to clause 4, 14th amendment, USCON.

Best not to think about that.
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:56 AM
 
62 posts, read 20,539 times
Reputation: 86
I'm not about to get into a bunch of libertarian rhetoric that hinges on conspiracy theory.
Nor debate esoteric semantics.

I get paid , The money pays my bills effectively.

I do not care how much gold exists. Basing our money supply on gold is random.

I have managed to do just fine on the current medium of exchange and so have many, many others. for a very long time.

I do not think the sky is going to fall. It is not lost on me that many folks of libertarian mindset forecast that back in 2008/2009 it was all over but the crying. We would now witness hyperinflation, etc. Except it did not happen.

And now they are doubling down and hoping that everyone forgets that when they saw the chance to say "I told you so", they took it and ...wait for it...nada. And I have been hearing these things from my libertarian pals for over 40 years. None of it has come to pass.

I happen to believe that the wealth in the USA is based on productivity, not gold. And while equity markets go up and down in the short term, in the long term they have been going up for a very,very long time.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:00 AM
 
64,529 posts, read 66,075,955 times
Reputation: 42973
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Low interest rates are biggest SCAM perpetuated to American public. It's CRIMINAL to keep rates so low for all those years. Would you lend your own money for 2% interest to someone????? I don't think so. Currently Wall Street Crooks, big corporations and the rich can virtually recieve free money while everyone else has been played. This is welfare for the rich, socialism for the rich. The entire system is rotten and criminal. Who told you people that this is normal? This is NOT normal, everything since 2001 is a SCAM.

Majority of our citizens are suffering, homeless population is out of control in many cities and our economy is still just moseying along slow enough to make life miserable for many. Sadly more and more people are not looking at the official unemployment number. If you want to see the employment slack look at the employment level over the total population. It is quite sad and is the reason why people have meddled with official unemployment numbers so much. The truth hurts. Over 40% of the population is not working.

THE FED is our PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1. This central bank needs to be abolished and dismantled. Debt Slavery needs to end in America. We live in a year 2017. Majority of our citizens DESERVE better system than this current one that is CRIMINAL!!!!!!

It is very hard for me to watch America being sabotaged from within. We are sabotaging our economy, our democracy from within while the world watch, and laughs. Americans are hardworking people and they are played by its own Elite and Wall Street Banks that have turned majority of our citizens into DEBT SLAVES. How sick do you have to be in order to think that this system, this way of life is normal??????? That this is so how game should be played. What game?????? This is sick and disgusting!!!!! Our doctors and entire medical field is getting rich by people's misfortunes and health. This is sick, no one wants to be a doctor to heal people it's all about the money. Our entire way of life is sick. You people need to wake up.

Me, me and me mentality that started with Regan administration has turned us into MONSTERS. No other nation worships money and material things so much like we do. We are obsessed with money, we wake up in the morning thinking about the money, during the day we think about the money and before we go to sleep we think about the money. This is SICK!!!!!!! There is no cure for GREED!!!!!!

We need to raise interest rates and allow our citizens to save money and to lower prices in everything, especially housing and medical care.
boy , you don't miss an opportunity to slide right in with the fed bashing . i hope you just copy and paste this stuff each time . it would be a shame to re-type it over and over and waste all that time
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:37 AM
 
721 posts, read 398,145 times
Reputation: 1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
boy , you don't miss an opportunity to slide right in with the fed bashing . i hope you just copy and paste this stuff each time . it would be a shame to re-type it over and over and waste all that time
The FED is our public enemy # 1. We need to publicly prosecute those criminals for treason. Do you realy think this generation of thieves and criminals have finally figured out how to cheat Mother Nature and avoid Deflation and Depression? I don't think so, deflation and depression can't be avoided, and criminals at the Fed just managed to postpone it few years adding trillions and trillions of dollars in debt, using our future earnings to simulate illusssion of economic growth.

You may think you will enjoy your retirement safely and nicely and I'm here to tell you that you will NOT. Very soon the only thing you will be worried about together with all of us is your own survival. You will experience Great Depression just like your parents did. Very likely we will have civil war as well or WW3.

When all this happens just remember that you were the one who supported this insanity and madness, who told everyone that low interest rates are a good thing, debt is good.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:50 AM
 
9,291 posts, read 11,138,237 times
Reputation: 12464
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So just proves the rich isnt spending at all, just hording and not helping anybody..

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/a...194733308.html



So instead of giving their employees raises or going out and buying things to help a company keeps their employees.. they are hording their money..

If you would have read the article you would have seen the basis for the wealth is stock market gains and housing gains. Both are not spendable unless you sell! So while the "on paper" wealth is at an all time high it won't get you a raise!
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:43 AM
 
64,529 posts, read 66,075,955 times
Reputation: 42973
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
The FED is our public enemy # 1. We need to publicly prosecute those criminals for treason. Do you realy think this generation of thieves and criminals have finally figured out how to cheat Mother Nature and avoid Deflation and Depression? I don't think so, deflation and depression can't be avoided, and criminals at the Fed just managed to postpone it few years adding trillions and trillions of dollars in debt, using our future earnings to simulate illusssion of economic growth.

You may think you will enjoy your retirement safely and nicely and I'm here to tell you that you will NOT. Very soon the only thing you will be worried about together with all of us is your own survival. You will experience Great Depression just like your parents did. Very likely we will have civil war as well or WW3.

When all this happens just remember that you were the one who supported this insanity and madness, who told everyone that low interest rates are a good thing, debt is good.
it is not about whether you support it or not . it is what it is and the constant bashing of the fed every post you make does not make your view any more correct or likely than someone who views things differently .

it is to the point of ad nauseam as they say
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,721 posts, read 47,472,880 times
Reputation: 17560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronn View Post
Does your 50% include children, prisoners, elderly living on almost nothing, homemakers?
I think it does and that makes this stat disingenuous.
I have heard it repeated for many years that 47% of Americans do not pay income taxes.

I would assume that it would have to include children, prisoners, elderly and homemakers, along with US service members and self-employed businessmen.

Any wage-slave raising a few children may find that with a few dependents and the EITC tax credit they may not be paying any income taxes. For years, I did not pay into income taxation and I got a 'refund' due to the EITC tax credit.
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