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Old 08-26-2017, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,007 posts, read 5,301,694 times
Reputation: 9647

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
Except they never siphoned anything from the trust fund. Ridiculous claim without any basis in reality.
Interesting. I'm still studying. I don't understand the mechanics of deposits to the trust fund. What stops congress from just not doing it?
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,307,327 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Social Security originally was a National Pension because it was un-funded. As contributions mounted up it became a pension. When Congress saw all that money sitting there they became greedy and siphoned off funds to pay for their schemes.
Now the fund does not have enough money to pay its future debt, so it must be funded from current contributions of new members who are paying for the withdrawals of people who are previous members of the fund. Bernie Madoff is very upset that he went to jail because Congress is a much bigger thief that he was and Congress has apologists working to preserve the system.
US Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. Quit the quackery and stop pretending to fund it on its own.
"If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and poops like a duck, guess what?"
I understand what you're saying, but when it comes to Bernie Madoff, I have no sympathy for that weasel. We encourage people over and over to save money for retirement instead of relying on just Social Security but when they do, the Bernie Madoffs of the world steal it. Because of him, more people will be dependent on the government Ponzi scheme, as you like to call it.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,007 posts, read 5,301,694 times
Reputation: 9647
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I understand what you're saying, but when it comes to Bernie Madoff, I have no sympathy for that weasel. We encourage people over and over to save money for retirement instead of relying on just Social Security but when they do, the Bernie Madoffs of the world steal it. Because of him, more people will be dependent on the government Ponzi scheme, as you like to call it.
I'm learning. A thing I learned from the TV Special about Bernie was don't put all your pigs in one pot, to mix a metaphor.
I'm still studying the old Ponzi scheme issue. I'm not sure that they will always make the required deposits to the Treasury trust account. How is that assured?
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:06 PM
 
2,141 posts, read 1,154,578 times
Reputation: 4371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Interesting. I'm still studying. I don't understand the mechanics of deposits to the trust fund. What stops congress from just not doing it?

Not doing what? Just about everything social security related is required by statute.

Read up on it.


https://www.ssa.gov/history/BudgetTreatment.html

https://www.cbpp.org/research/social...ty-trust-funds


The idea that Congress "raids" the trust fund to pay for stuff is retarded. They no more raid social security than they raid any pension plans, mutual funds, other governments or everyone else that invests assets into treasuries.

We could invest the money elsewhere. China maybe? Seriously though a portion of this money could be diverted to any investment like US stocks to help improve returns and extend solvency. Treasuries are ultra safe investments, that is why they are used.

One other common misconception is that social security will just go away. Even if nothing is done they'll be able to pay out 75% of benefits for something like another 60 years which is when the projections end. Fixing social security is also not the hurdle people think it is. You can play with the scenarios here:

http://www.crfb.org/socialsecurityreformer/

There is a ton of misinformation on everything, social security sees more than it's fair share. People get overly invested in their talking points and rarely challenge their opinions.

Last edited by aridon; 08-26-2017 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,127 posts, read 9,212,549 times
Reputation: 8988
UH - NO.
SocSec was never a pension. Calling it a national pension won't change the law.

slash slash www dot scribd dot com slash doc slash 13672493 slash -Property-Rights-The-Hidden-Issue-of-Social-Security-Reform-Cato-Social-Security-Choice-Paper-No-19-
"One of the most enduring myths of Social Security is that a worker has a legal right to his Social Security benefits. Many workers assume that, if they pay Social Security taxes into the system, they have some sort of legal guarantee to the system's benefits. The truth is exactly the opposite. It has long been law that there is no legal right to Social Security. In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits."
(No trust fund; No insurance; Just a tax - correction, it’s a “tax and bribe” scam.)
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:28 AM
 
18,304 posts, read 11,693,181 times
Reputation: 11947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Interesting. I'm still studying. I don't understand the mechanics of deposits to the trust fund. What stops congress from just not doing it?



See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social...ity_Trust_Fund


In particular from the above:


"These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large Trust Fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government’s ability to pay benefits. (from FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337)"

In short there isn't a "fund" and it shouldn't be trusted.




See also: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html


https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017...ion-in-20.aspx
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:02 AM
 
64,714 posts, read 66,206,532 times
Reputation: 43118
i wouldn't worry , we can suddenly come up with the dough to fight endless wars at the drop of a hat .

funding social security fully will be childs play , we just wait until the 11th hour to do so like we do for everything else . .

a quick bill passage by congress and it is done .
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Old 08-27-2017, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,353 posts, read 79,526,740 times
Reputation: 38687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Anyone who will someday rely on Social Security should start using a stronger name to identify it. Calling Social Security our National Pension is a much stronger way to refer to it.

To some extent calling SS a National Pension takes the wind out of the sails of those who call it a ponzi scheme. Everyone understands what a pension is right. Pensions are viewed as obligations. SS takes into account how much you pay into it for a certain minimum number of years just like a corporate pension. It is a national pension.

National pension, pass it on.
who really cares what it is called? It is the same thing and does the same thing.
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,978 posts, read 1,944,710 times
Reputation: 2440
why is reffering to such things generally as welfare considered a negative thing.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 602,948 times
Reputation: 2723
The supply of slop about Social Security seems endless. As with typical insurance programs, SS pays current benefits out of current premiums and retains the balance as reserves against future obligations. In accordance with fiduciary responsibility, funds that are not yet needed are invested so as to earn a market-based rate of return until needed. As the primary investment objective is conservation of principal, they are invested in US Treasury securities. Some for patently dishonest reasons will refer to these as "worthless IOU's" even while they are the standard against which the safety and security of every other financial asset is measured.

Meanwhile, there are few if any other markets that would be capable of absorbing a balance of say $2.8 trillion in a non-disruptive manner, particularly when inflows and outflows from those balances are so readily predictable.
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