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Old 09-08-2017, 08:13 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,031,855 times
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I see that the issue is their is no repercussion for living in poverty because you got the government feeding them. Got to give people a reason to live, and working a "9-5" slavery on 7 a hour doesnt put food on the table anymore. Amazing how 10-20 years ago, one person can feed a family of 3-5, and now you need both parents and a work permit child to get a loaf of bread. Inflation of everything is keeping the poor from getting out of the jam. Its not really the whole problem, but part of it. Now if you can figure a way to keep them from living for free in housing and government assistance, then you will see a few getting out of the ghetto infested drug areas. Everybody should be work least 20 hours a week to earn any assistance from the government period. I dont care if your deaf, blind, in a wheelchair, their is a job for you somewhere. Heck go to the office were you applied for food stamps and housing and clean the rest rooms for them for a week. Show something that you care about getting out of the situation you are in. Now throwing the education in people face is not the best answer, as some folks are not made for school. Doesn't mean you need to look down on them. Take a look at all the big CEO's that dropped out of school. Pay is stagger, and will be for a long time coming. No business is willing to invest in the payroll with out some kinda return on that investment. Will you stick around longer if they pay you more? how about benefits. If the business owner/company can keep paying people who can do the job no matter their education, and increase it as the inflation increases, then we should see the poverty start to drop. Dont inflate with out payroll inflation or your just going to making that 1% gap get wider and wider..
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:31 PM
 
24,752 posts, read 26,817,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
You must not be seeing the same media that I am.
Clearly not. Just about the only media that says the Swedish welfare model is unrealistic for America would be Fox News and talk radio. All the others love to talk about how secure and happy everyone is in Scandinavia.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:34 PM
 
24,752 posts, read 26,817,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Interesting article, thanks!

A fun aspect of what is being done there is the same slight-of-hand that happened in the U.S. a few decades ago. Income tax was reduced, but sales taxes were introduced (at a low rate) to make up the difference.
Denmark already has a sky high sales tax, known as the VAT (Value Added Tax) in Europe...currently 25% with few exceptions/exemptions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:36 PM
 
24,752 posts, read 26,817,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Amazing how 10-20 years ago, one person can feed a family of 3-5, and now you need both parents and a work permit child to get a loaf of bread. .
Hyperbole much? People were saying the same thing you are 10-20 years ago. People love to look at the past with rose colored glasses. I've heard "2 parents working is a necessity" since the 1980s.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:07 AM
 
365 posts, read 166,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I learned long ago that, once established, the purpose of ANY government is more government, more money to play with, more control, and perpetuating itself. It doesn't matter if the government is capitalist or socialist or religious or based on chocolate coins.
All governments are based on military conquest. The purpose of goverment is to extract booty and slaves from the conquered lands. Over time, they become more efficient. Kind of like feedlot operators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
YMMV, and it took a long time for me to recognize that systems have to take into account all the frailties and failings of humanity, making any "pure" system an impossibility.
What we call "systems" or "isms" or poltical philosophies are just the rationalizations and justifications that hired propagandists have found will be the most effective at getting the plebes to get up and go to work each day. They are just making things up - throwing it at the wall to see what sticks. Similar to electoral politics where they let us choose from their list of approved polticians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
"I think the best way of doing good to the rich, is not making them easy in wealth, but leading or driving them out of it - and forcing them to work to retain it."
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:53 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 1,673,243 times
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I've thought hiring people at $12 an hour, one part of a national infrastructure and other public works project, would be a good way to fight poverty and accomplish other goals. There are way too many poor people who don't do anything except vegetate. That is the worst thing that can happen to a person. Getting them on their feet and doing something is important.

Giving these workers a $12 wage would stimulate low paying companies to increase their wages, too.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:17 PM
 
Location: USA
941 posts, read 460,285 times
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Give someone a fish...and they will always need you.

Teach them how to fish...and they will become self-sufficient.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,447,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretBartle View Post
All governments are based on military conquest. The purpose of goverment is to extract booty and slaves from the conquered lands. Over time, they become more efficient. Kind of like feedlot operators.
There are very few instances where government becomes more efficient at doing something, where efficiency is output divided by input resources.

Economists on the left, the right, and in the center agree there is one spot where government is particulalry effective AND efficient: creating shortages. All the government needs to do is put in place a price ceiling -- for example, declare the maximum price for which tomatoes may be sold is $.02 per pound. Within a week there will be a nationwide tomato shortage. You would be able to buy all you want for $.02 per pound but you would find none for sale.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:06 PM
 
4,310 posts, read 2,452,293 times
Reputation: 2424
Quote:
Originally Posted by noregon98 View Post
Give someone a fish...and they will always need you.

Teach them how to fish...and they will become self-sufficient.
Make houses 1 million dollars and they'll never be self sufficient.
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
32 posts, read 15,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Clearly not. Just about the only media that says the Swedish welfare model is unrealistic for America would be Fox News and talk radio. All the others love to talk about how secure and happy everyone is in Scandinavia.
The U.S. is charged with, and pays for, the defense of the West. Only one or two other countries comes close to military spending as a percentage of GDP. When and if these liberal countries, including the EU conglomerate, have to spend for their own defense, they, like us, won't be able to afford that happiness and security that we know Scandinavia and the rest of Europe enjoys.

Instead of spending on military, these countries build infrastructure, and have different versions of universal healthcare, the envy of most Americans. They have that luxury, but at our expense. The tradeoff was, in last seventy years, that we got the cheap oil (for protecting mid-east oil interests), while every other country paid much more to fill their tanks. That "unspoken" agreement between nations, and the middle east, is outdated, and now many years later the rest of the west pokes fun at our stupidity. Why shouldn't they?

To fight wars, and to end wars, or for help with national disasters, the WORLD has always relied on the the U.S. And that is where the problem begins. Why are we paying for the defense of the West? What could we do with the financial savings if we only paid our fair share, which is far more than just about every country in The West.
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