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Old 09-11-2017, 05:13 PM
 
20,569 posts, read 13,592,536 times
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A few weeks ago the Sunday NYT did an interesting piece on how changes in the American work place have contributed to greater income inequality.


The piece mostly focused on Kodak, in upstate New York. It showed the difference between two women, both who started as janitors at the company and how their careers have evolved. Article also mentions other former or current Kodak workers who have had to adjust to the new reality of American workplace.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/u...w.html?mcubz=0


Bottom line seems to be as companies have gone "lean", they have also created multi-tier workforces. The increasing use of contract workers plays a large role in reshaping the American labor force and income inequality. Instead of a company made up of workers who are all in the same "family" as it were; you now have those who do officially work for their employers, and others who do not (contracted).
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:12 AM
 
9,738 posts, read 8,034,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
A few weeks ago the Sunday NYT did an interesting piece on how changes in the American work place have contributed to greater income inequality.


The piece mostly focused on Kodak, in upstate New York. It showed the difference between two women, both who started as janitors at the company and how their careers have evolved. Article also mentions other former or current Kodak workers who have had to adjust to the new reality of American workplace.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/u...w.html?mcubz=0


Bottom line seems to be as companies have gone "lean", they have also created multi-tier workforces. The increasing use of contract workers plays a large role in reshaping the American labor force and income inequality. Instead of a company made up of workers who are all in the same "family" as it were; you now have those who do officially work for their employers, and others who do not (contracted).

I quit my "full time" job in IT to take up a job as a "contractor" in IT. I almost doubled my salary for the same work. I can afford my own vacation if I choose to take one.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,335 posts, read 17,373,400 times
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Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
I quit my "full time" job in IT to take up a job as a "contractor" in IT. I almost doubled my salary for the same work. I can afford my own vacation if I choose to take one.
There is a major, major difference between being what is essentially a highly skilled freelance consultant with the ability to go between different projects and a poorly skilled janitor working for a temp agency.

This article hits home to me, as my hometown and current place of residence is the home of Eastman Chemical Company. Eastman Chemical was spun off of Eastman-Kodak in 1993, and my grandfather retired from E-K that year. He wasn't a highly paid or skilled guy, but he had a pension, which he took as a lump sum due to not thinking he'd live very long because of his medical issues. He died in 2009, but I believe the health insurance benefit for my grandmother was only fairly recently phased out.

My father also worked at E-K as a mechanic back in the early 80s to early 90s. Back then, they had a paid apprenticeship program for new hires. A mechanic's job paid much better than the teaching jobs he qualified for in this area with his elementary education degree. When he left in 1991, he was making $17/hr. He also had insurance and other benefits. In its heyday, E-K/ECC employed about 9,000 people locally.

Fast forward a generation. The headcount onsite has shrunk, though only slightly. However, ECC only employs about 4,500 people locally now. The rest of those positions, including many, many blue collar positions, have been outsourced to third party labor vendors, like Brock Services and Jacobs Engineering. These companies pay far less than Eastman would have adjusted for inflation, and sometimes pay less than Eastman paid in absolute dollars a decade or two ago. Those mechanics are now paid $19/hr through the agency. The apprenticeship program was abolished.

People often think it's only blue collar jobs that are being outsourced or offshored. It isn't. ECC outsources a lot of IT jobs, from help desk all the way into information security, to another contracting firm. I worked for this contracting firm at the help desk several years ago. They couldn't make me full time. I was part-time with no benefits, with three years of help desk experience in other F500 firms. I made $11.68/hr at 36 hours/week with no benefits of any kind. Many of my former colleagues were laid off when Eastman decided to send these (admittedly poorly paid) contract IT jobs to Hyderabad, India.

When you're with one of these agencies, there is almost no chance of going permanent with the client company. While Eastman is still probably the marquee name for local employment, working AT Eastman for a contractor is much different than working FOR Eastman.

If you're on with one of these labor vendors, the best thing for you to do is to keep applying until you can find direct employment somewhere.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:39 PM
 
9,978 posts, read 4,587,396 times
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pension, pension, pension, why does it seem like everyone on here that talks about the good old days bring it up like if they had one, they would be set for life?

people get paid more today, use that difference in money to invest or buy a pension on your own

only the ones that get paid less are the ones that do the same job 50 years ago without learning anything new, the world has moved on from 50 years ago, why do people not expect the skills to have moved on as well?

if someone thought their pay wasn't keeping up with inflation, why did they keep working the same job? they could have got new skills to keep up with raising costs
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,117 posts, read 4,046,029 times
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I saw that article. Question is, which company would you want to own stock in today?
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Future Expat of California
602 posts, read 322,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
pension, pension, pension, why does it seem like everyone on here that talks about the good old days bring it up like if they had one, they would be set for life?

people get paid more today, use that difference in money to invest or buy a pension on your own

only the ones that get paid less are the ones that do the same job 50 years ago without learning anything new, the world has moved on from 50 years ago, why do people not expect the skills to have moved on as well?

if someone thought their pay wasn't keeping up with inflation, why did they keep working the same job? they could have got new skills to keep up with raising costs
A private pension was once the standard if you worked for a large corporation back in the day. My parents and grandparents didn't get one because they didn't work a long time for a large corporation. My father did work for MCI back in the late 80 & early 90s but he didn't get a pension like he would have if started in the 70s.

A lot of ppl can't get up and move because like before because they're not bringing home enough money and whatever they have a large percentage of it is being used on basic necessities (gas, housing, transportation to work, childcare, groceries. etc.) If you're single depending on your income it may not be too bad. But if you're supporting a family it a whole another situation.

Secondly, there's not much opportunity for upward mobility like before. In order to get educated you have to go into debt (ie student loans). Then there's no guarantee that you'll hired because you'll be considered 'entry-level' and will get below average wages, benefits, etc.

Everything now is definitely not like it was before and I'm talking about 30-40 yrs difference. Heck, even businesses are running things differently than they were 5-10 yrs. Why do you think there's so much talk about artificial intelligence (AI) now.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:14 AM
 
13,735 posts, read 7,286,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
pension, pension, pension, why does it seem like everyone on here that talks about the good old days bring it up like if they had one, they would be set for life?

people get paid more today, use that difference in money to invest or buy a pension on your own

only the ones that get paid less are the ones that do the same job 50 years ago without learning anything new, the world has moved on from 50 years ago, why do people not expect the skills to have moved on as well?

if someone thought their pay wasn't keeping up with inflation, why did they keep working the same job? they could have got new skills to keep up with raising costs
Actually, the median person doesn't get paid more today when you adjust for inflation.

"they could have got new skills..." kind of highlights the problem. If I see a resume with that kind of grammar mistake, it's going into the trash.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 684,078 times
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...better than "they could OF got"...
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:38 PM
 
2,614 posts, read 2,228,767 times
Reputation: 4888
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
pension, pension, pension, why does it seem like everyone on here that talks about the good old days bring it up like if they had one, they would be set for life?

people get paid more today, use that difference in money to invest or buy a pension on your own

only the ones that get paid less are the ones that do the same job 50 years ago without learning anything new, the world has moved on from 50 years ago, why do people not expect the skills to have moved on as well?

if someone thought their pay wasn't keeping up with inflation, why did they keep working the same job? they could have got new skills to keep up with raising costs
Lol, easy to say from someone who gets a pension.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,087 posts, read 12,408,399 times
Reputation: 19029
People do not make more today. The median income is the same as it was in 1970. Upper incomes have increased, lower incomes have declined. If you are looking at entry level, you are lucky to make 60% of what people made in 1970, and the benefits like pensions and free health insurance have gone away.
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