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Old 09-26-2017, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,051 posts, read 11,460,740 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
High humor. A Forbes opinion piece.

Here's what the US Census Bureau says:
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...5/cb15-97.html
I stand corrected. The US economy truly is the best of all possible worlds.

I take it you are not familiar with Voltaire, or the history of the French revolution.

BTW, you are cherry picking your government assistance numbers by omitting Medicare, Social Security, veterans benefits and federal pensions, none of which are means tested. I think it's probably pretty accurate that half of the country receives direct assistance in one form or another. It's also obvious that society would collapse without the intervention of government money.

That's not counting the 2 million people directly employed by the feds, the 1.4 million active duty military personnel, or the unknown myriads of people who owe their job to the US defense budget. Even the CBO is stumped by that one, but from the size of the budget is numbers in the millions. The economy has not grown enough to even come close to paying for the $68 trillion in unfunded liabilities that we will need to support the millions who receive direct government assistance.

Most of those people should be able to provide for themselves instead of relying on charity. The fact that they can't is a direct indictment of the US economy. We have been spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year on wars, which produce nothing. Weapons are useless for any other purpose, and munitions are designed to be expended. Fifty years of endless warfare has brought the economy to its knees. It's like we learned nothing from the collapse of the Soviet Union.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:24 PM
 
2,769 posts, read 1,498,302 times
Reputation: 2173
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
One thing that is thriving is Plastic Debt .
It was actually worse previously.

Not sure if you ever replied to my comments regarding the poor and their 'gadgets'. Are you 110% certain all of these folks are using plastic too?
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:39 PM
 
11,568 posts, read 17,501,153 times
Reputation: 17216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
I stand corrected. The US economy truly is the best of all possible worlds.

I take it you are not familiar with Voltaire, or the history of the French revolution.

BTW, you are cherry picking your government assistance numbers by omitting Medicare, Social Security, veterans benefits and federal pensions, none of which are means tested. I think it's probably pretty accurate that half of the country receives direct assistance in one form or another. It's also obvious that society would collapse without the intervention of government money.

That's not counting the 2 million people directly employed by the feds, the 1.4 million active duty military personnel, or the unknown myriads of people who owe their job to the US defense budget. Even the CBO is stumped by that one, but from the size of the budget is numbers in the millions. The economy has not grown enough to even come close to paying for the $68 trillion in unfunded liabilities that we will need to support the millions who receive direct government assistance.

Most of those people should be able to provide for themselves instead of relying on charity. The fact that they can't is a direct indictment of the US economy. We have been spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year on wars, which produce nothing. Weapons are useless for any other purpose, and munitions are designed to be expended. Fifty years of endless warfare has brought the economy to its knees. It's like we learned nothing from the collapse of the Soviet Union.

This is crazy - there are some issues but all in all the economy is booming. The economy is far from being "on it's knees". I mean, who can take you seriously with that kind of hyperbole? People dismiss you as some end-of-the-world kook on the very first line.

The defense budget has remained steady at about 15 or 16% of total spending. It's money well spent for the most part. The very premise of your thread is simply faulty...at least let's get to the real issue and that's the cost of healthcare which is more like 27% or 28% of spending. Entitlements is indeed an issue, but is far from being unmanageable yet.

Let me guess....you post frequently to the prepper forum....
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:23 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,349 posts, read 952,281 times
Reputation: 800
We are all supposed to believe in "Consumerism" and keep calling it Capitalism.

In 1900 there were 8.000 cars in the US. Now there are more than 230,000,000.

But we did not have Planned Obsolescence in 1900 and economists do not tell us what American consumers lose on the Depreciation of Durable Consumer Goods every year. So our schools produce brainwashed workers and television produces brainwashed consumers.

What is NET Domestic Product? We have 400 page economics books that only give half-a-page to NDP.

http://www.toxicdrums.com/economic-w...al-timgar.html

Producing junk to fall apart increases GDP but most worker/consumers do not have much wealth and our schools can't make double-entry accounting mandatory.

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 09-26-2017 at 08:04 PM..
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:39 PM
 
696 posts, read 548,175 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The reason the US economy is no longer serving the majority of its citizens is the endless wars we have been engaged in. Trillions of dollars that should have gone to investment and infrastructure has been squandered in other countries, leaving the US economy in nonproductive rubble. I had an economics professor 50 years ago who predicted it would happen. He was talking about Viet Nam back then. Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan were not even on the radar 50 years ago, but he was proven right.
I have thought about this. But why did the economy decline as soon as we stopped the war in iraq around 2008?
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:48 PM
 
Location: plano
5,953 posts, read 7,495,565 times
Reputation: 5012
What does the US lead globally in these days? Our military is expensive but at the top. We spend more on education than our competition yet we do poorly in education results. Our health care spending leads and we have great MDs and meds but its inefficient, I suspect regulation of medical data and the med industry leads the world and gets in the way of efficiency and effectiveness. Lawyers, we spend a fortune on law suits probably the global pacesetter in spending, for what end? Lawyers dont create wealth for the nation they merely spread it around and take a nice cut for doing so.

If out economy was booming, we would see rising interest rates not record low ones. The economy is better than most countries despite our pace setting incremental corporate tax rates. We need high taxes to pay for the waste cited above and being the global policeman in defense.

We need better educated work force for the higher paying jobs being created these days due to automation. I doubt the issue is we do not spend enough for education. The big looming unmeasured deficit is in public sector promises to retirees which are not funded. Its worse than it seems but there are opportunities to address costs in all these areas and spend money driving up job growth through having a competitive tax on corporations and spending the savings we find in the areas I mentioned and spend it to address our infrastructure system, especially where safety and effectiveness are impacted.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:10 PM
 
24,724 posts, read 26,794,844 times
Reputation: 22718
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
healthcare is consuming an enormous part of our GDP. Companies can't compete, because they have to build in the very high cost of healthcare for employees. In addition, our litigious society necessitates carrying expensive insurance to cover all the class action lawsuits, frivolous suits, etc.
Yes, this is very true. People rightly gripe about the wars, but we now spend over $1 Trillion a year in treating diseases that are largely preventable. There is a way out of this mess, but it has relatively little to do with fighting over health insurance. Dan Buettner leads the way with pragmatic solutions to prevent obesity related diseases from happening in the first place. That's where the real action is....and it doesn't require any waiting on the government to do anything:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waGHi6aMzh8
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:36 PM
 
8,290 posts, read 3,456,454 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by tar21 View Post
I have thought about this. But why did the economy decline as soon as we stopped the war in iraq around 2008?
Was mostly unrelated, and due to mass quantities of foul and unregulated mortgage paper sent out into the world. Except wars do produce more deficit spending. Which we did not have enough of in 2009.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:05 PM
 
1,196 posts, read 850,249 times
Reputation: 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perma Bear View Post
Focus less on wars and more on affordable housing for our poorest.
And Obamacare and Obamaphones and everything else Obam-ish.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,756 posts, read 1,211,909 times
Reputation: 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
US economy is also earning from other countries. Everytime somebody purchase a bottle of Pepsi in India or an iPhone in Japan or McDonald's in Germany or latest Hollywood flick in theater in Argentina - USA Economy gets a boost. Money is flowing from countries around the world to USA.

hehe...I get your point, but there's a small correction to be made in 2 points:

Point 1 - Apple sells an iPhone in Japan. It has a choice. Bring the money home to the USA and pay taxes to the US government.....or, realize you don't need the money right away and keep it overseas and don't pay the tax. Have too much money overseas....maybe build a new factory and employee people....overseas. After all, those countries don't get hit with tariffs when they sell the United States, so why put the jobs in the US?

Point 2 (likely stemming from Point 1 in part) - The United States imports far more than it exports. That wasn't always the case. Even after that turned into a deficit, for a time we could take solace in GNP balances still being positive....that is we may have a trade deficit, but through ownership of companies and debt service overseas we still had more money coming back than we were putting out. But that's long gone now too. It's sunk countries forever. Not sure how to turn it around.

Incidentally, the two countries with the biggest Point 2 surpluses are China (not surprising) but the biggest surplus goes too......Germany. Both have economically mindful governments.
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