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Old 10-02-2017, 02:36 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,159,922 times
Reputation: 15093

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
FICA, particularly FICA levied upon employees is a regressive tax:

Effectively all employees within the USA pay FICA payroll taxes based upon their wages.
The only persons directly subject to FICA taxes are employees. (Self employed persons, (i.e. independent contractors) pay a higher consolidated rate levied upon their wages and the remainder of their enterprises' payrolls).

FICA taxes paid by higher income employees are annually “capped”.

Economies of scale, are less available to smaller enterprises. Specifically, advantages of labor specialization is less available to“mom & pop” enterprises. Taxing enterprises' payrolls rather than net incomes penalizes payroll expansion and additionally is usually more detrimental to small enterprises.

FICA payroll taxes are among, if not the most regressive of all U.S. Federal taxes
Its an insurance payment. If you started uncapping it then its only fair that you uncap the payouts also. If I'm paying a premium of $200 I'm expecting more payback if I claim then the guy paying $100.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:40 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,159,922 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Calculations for a higher return fail every low earner who dies before getting their money back, as they cannot monetize those calculations.
Its a population issue and most low earners do not die before they have obtained more than they paid in. Its a boon to the majority of low earners - free money.
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:43 PM
 
1,516 posts, read 969,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
The right to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" implies the right to health. The right of free speech, and to bear arms is similarly guaranteed.
In all cases, to achieve the actualization of these Constitutional rights you have to be able to afford them, not expect other people to pay for your healthcare, write your speeches, or buy a gun for you.
I agree with your sentiment but I take it one step further.

Nobody has a "right" to health. "Rights" are a limitation on what others will do to you, not a grant of additional gifts that others will bestow upon you.

Free speech = you won't be jailed for speech.
Freedom of religion = you won't be jailed for religion.
Freedom of the press = you won't be jailed for publishing unpopular ideas
Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure = the government won't search your house without reason.
Right to bear arms = you won't be jailed for gun ownership (or perhaps, you won't be jailed for mounting a set of Bear Arms on your wall, who knows what the founders meant )

Notice all of these things are negative rights- things that others aren't allowed to do to you.

What does the "right to health" look like? Some other human (a doctor) is forced to give up their time, money, and effort in order to treat you, or others are forced to pay for your medicine. This looks nothing like the rights conveyed in the constitution or any of our founding documents. These documents don't grant gifts; they prevent others from messing with you so you can go on about your life yourself.
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:45 PM
 
1,516 posts, read 969,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Sales taxes are also regressive, as are licensing fees for vehicles in many states.
Every single expenditure in life is regressive. If you have a billion dollars in your bank account, every daily expense is a tiny percentage of your wealth/income. If you have $200 to your name, then every daily expense is a HUGE percentage of your income.

Buying a can of diet coke is regressive.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:13 PM
 
6,089 posts, read 2,817,970 times
Reputation: 6005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
FICA, particularly FICA levied upon employees is a regressive tax:

Effectively all employees within the USA pay FICA payroll taxes based upon their wages.
The only persons directly subject to FICA taxes are employees. (Self employed persons, (i.e. independent contractors) pay a higher consolidated rate levied upon their wages and the remainder of their enterprises' payrolls).

FICA taxes paid by higher income employees are annually “capped”.

Economies of scale, are less available to smaller enterprises. Specifically, advantages of labor specialization is less available to“mom & pop” enterprises. Taxing enterprises' payrolls rather than net incomes penalizes payroll expansion and additionally is usually more detrimental to small enterprises.

FICA payroll taxes are among, if not the most regressive of all U.S. Federal taxes
No, it isn't. That claim is factually incorrect.

Just stop already.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:31 AM
 
1,286 posts, read 686,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
No, it isn't. That claim is factually incorrect.

Just stop already.
TaxPhd, please further explain your response.
Refer to
Federal taxes ain't that progressive.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:48 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 2,817,970 times
Reputation: 6005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
TaxPhd, please further explain your response.
Refer to
Federal taxes ain't that progressive.
We have been through this so many times, it is really becoming tiresome. However, here it is, one more time, because you just don't seem to get it.

A regressive tax is one in which the tax rate increases as the base to which it applies decreases. That's it. It has NO other definition. And FICA does not fit the definition of a regressive tax.

What you are calling "regressive" is actually "disparate impact." The idea that a tax has a greater negative impact on a poor person than on a wealthier person. And this has been appropriately addressed in this thread, that EVERYTHING that one spends money on has a greater disparate impact on the poor vis-a-vis the rich. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about a tax or a gallon of milk.

Again, I'm not sure of the reason(s) for your continued insistence that various taxes are regressive when they clearly aren't. Words have meaning, and you do yourself no favors by insisting that a word means what you want it to, rather than what it actually does.

Last edited by TaxPhd; 10-04-2017 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 688,948 times
Reputation: 2736
The IRS states the following...

Key Terms
regressive tax
A tax that takes a larger percentage of income from low-income groups than from high-income groups.

https://apps.irs.gov/app/understandi...hm03_les02.jsp
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:34 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 2,817,970 times
Reputation: 6005
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
The IRS states the following...

Key Terms
regressive tax
A tax that takes a larger percentage of income from low-income groups than from high-income groups.

https://apps.irs.gov/app/understandi...hm03_les02.jsp
Supposn will be along shortly to tell you that you're wrong.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,724 posts, read 9,836,437 times
Reputation: 9839
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
The other longer thread will point out that 'Federal Insurance Contributions Act' mandates participation and payment of premiums. Although distorted over the years by politicians (like everything else) it is still a plan intended to fund retirement and it is the primary retirement plan of most citizens. The calculations used to determine benefits are quite progressive, not at all regressive.
In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits. They are entirely at the discretion of CONgress.
(FICA is NOT insurance - for you)

And it's 100% voluntary - thus constitutional voluntary servitude. (Which is also how Obamacare was ruled to be a constitutional tax... via FICA!)
“The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...”
- - - The Social Security Administration
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf
Get your own personalized letter from the SocSecAdmin . . .

Don't believe me - politely ask your congresscritter about the tax and bribe system in place since 1935.

Write polite questionnaires to Congressmen:

1. What law compels all Americans in the USA to enroll and participate in FICA?
2. What law punishes any American in the USA who does not participate in FICA?
3. What law punishes any American business that hires unnumbered Americans?
4. What is the official procedure to volunteer out of FICA?
5. What privilege am I exercising when I do not participate in FICA that would incur an income tax on my wages?
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