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There has been much discussion lately to preserve the deduction for state & local taxes for the middle class.
Democratic Rep. Thomas Souzzi, D-NY who represents part of Long Island, NY, came out to say that in his high cost of living district, you're still middle-class up to $400,000 per year in income. So, he's OK with phasing out a deduction for State & Local taxes above $400K, but wants to preserve the deduction for those below $400K.
There has been much discussion lately to preserve the deduction for state & local taxes for the middle class.
Democratic Rep. Thomas Souzzi, D-NY who represents part of Long Island, NY, came out to say that in his high cost of living district, you're still middle-class up to $400,000 per year in income. So, he's OK with phasing out a deduction for State & Local taxes above $400K, but wants to preserve the deduction for those below $400K.
That proposal seems reasonable. I would define today's urban middle class as earning between $100k and $400k, or net worth between 1M and 4M in the last decade before retirement.
I don't know if it's reasonable, but at least it's reasoned rather than being slapdash reactionary. The $400K cutoff is of course arbitrary in some degree, but it could be adjusted if there were serious problems found with it.
The gist seems to be similar to annual AMT relief of not so long ago -- keeping one group of people from falling under penalties actually meant for a different group.
I don't know if it's reasonable, but at least it's reasoned rather than being slapdash reactionary. The $400K cutoff is of course arbitrary in some degree, but it could be adjusted if there were serious problems found with it.
The gist seems to be similar to annual AMT relief of not so long ago -- keeping one group of people from falling under penalties actually meant for a different group.
Precisely, I was thinking the same thing the other day. I have been in this middle income category for about two decades of my senior career, and the AMT almost completely eats up the itemized deductions, to the point that it's really not even worth itemizing. Abolishing both itemized deductions and AMT (as proposed by the "current administration") is roughly equal to having both itemized deductions and AMT (as it is now), ie, the proposal to abolish both itemized deductions and AMT would change approximately nothing for middle-income taxpayers. The real change (very helpful for middle class) would be to allow itemized deductions and abolish AMT.
I would define today's urban middle class as earning between $100k and $400k, or net worth between 1M and 4M in the last decade before retirement.
Definitions are of course subjective, but your definition would set the middle-class (if we define class as a matter of material wealth) floor at something like the 90th percentile in net-worth.
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Originally Posted by barb712
I think the terms "middle class" and "middle income" have gotten mixed up over the years. It's more about values IMO.
Agreed. Class distinction is less about pecuniary matters, than those of upbringing, attitudes and taste; not to mention social/community standing. It really is tiresome to hear about a "shrinking middle class", when the context is really about blue-collar employees and tradesmen who in the 20th century enjoyed an income commensurate with that of the professions.
Working class folks (at least in Ohio) who make middle class wages see those wages stagnant or falling while prices are going up and up. Something has to give. Eventually falling/stagnant wages and rising prices will result in shrinking demand. Lucky me I've lost desire for most of the crap in the stores, but there are some unavoidable costs and medical racket that would gobble up it all anyway.
Yes, it is quite perplexing but falling wages go hand in hand with cries about labor shortages. Apparently the ongoing slide in wages is not enough, owning class wants to get even a bigger slice of a pie by means of flooding labor market with eager applicants willing to work for less.
Agreed. Class distinction is less about pecuniary matters, than those of upbringing, attitudes and taste; not to mention social/community standing. It really is tiresome to hear about a "shrinking middle class", when the context is really about blue-collar employees and tradesmen who in the 20th century enjoyed an income commensurate with that of the professions.
Class distinction is all about the levels of subservience and docility of the lower classes since owning class has complete power to push any class as far as it can. Only push back sets a temporary equilibrium point since owning class will not rest until it controls everything and everybody. Needless to say that working class slide down the income and power ladder perfectly correlates with its pussification. They will push us until our backs will be against the wall.
My parents were middle class, but I've never even seen a glimpse of being middle class myself. In fact, I'm surprised it's still around. For so long now, all I've seen are rich people and poor people. You know, the ones who can afford to fix their cars when they break down and those who can't.
My parents were middle class, but I've never even seen a glimpse of being middle class myself. In fact, I'm surprised it's still around. For so long now, all I've seen are rich people and poor people. You know, the ones who can afford to fix their cars when they break down and those who can't.
I can afford to fix a car but can't afford any housing what am I?
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